Enhance 224 to 176.
224 放大至 176
Enhance.
放大
Stop.
停
You have all the tools...
你有所有的工具
达丽尔·汉娜，普莉丝饰演者
...colors, toys, everything at your disposal...
以所有不同的色彩，玩具、所有你手上可以拿到的东西……
...to transport you to an imaginary world.
把你带到一个想象中的世界
People's patience and their willingness to persevere tended to erode...
人们的耐性和意志力通常会随着
迈克尔·迪利，制片人
...as we went on shooting nights in smoke.
在夜里进行拍摄而逐渐消失
It was a bitch working every night.
每天晚上都要上工
哈里森·福特，德卡饰演者
All night long, often in the rain.
彻夜工作，通常都是雨夜
So it wasn't the most pleasant shoot.
所以拍起来很不舒服
The tension...
那种紧绷感
乔安娜·卡西迪，卓拉饰演者
...and the atmosphere created was absolutely palpable.
营造出的气氛非常动人心弦
It was enormous. Overwhelming, beautiful, enormous, great.
气势澎湃、震撼人心、壮丽浩瀚无比
鲁特格尔·哈尔，罗伊·巴蒂饰演者
And I was living there.
我当时就住在那里
I don't think some of these people on the crew really understood...
工作人员根本无法想象
道格拉斯·川柏，特效摄影总监
...how far Ridley was pushing the medium.
雷德利将媒体向前推动了多么大的一步
The chaos of that production. Everybody hating it.
拍制过程之混乱，大家都觉得很烦
汉普顿·范彻，执行制片人、编剧
People don't wanna be in movies after they worked on that movie.
拍过那部电影之后，大家都不想再拍电影了
It's like all those things informed this in a magical way, I guess.
好像那些东西是以奇妙方式传达给我们似的
肖恩·杨，瑞秋饰演者
When it first came out
当它初问世时
it was too intense to let in the darkness and the poverty...
观众很难接受公元 2019 年的黒暗面以及贫穷景象
...and the projection of what life would be like in 2019.
那种感觉很令人喘不过气
What Ridley created was...
雷德利所营造出的
席德·米德，未来视觉艺术家
...this multilayered, very intense investigation into how that world might be.
是一个多层的、非常紧凑的、近距观察那个世界的可能景况
How do you prepare the audience...
要如何让观众能够
大卫·皮普尔斯，编剧
...for seeing something very different?
接受如此不同的景象呢？
Now time has prepared them.
现在观众经过时间洗礼，已经准备好了
It was so dark.
如此之晦暗
爱德华·詹姆斯·奥莫斯，加夫饰演者
And so intense and so beautifully constructed.
如此紧凑，却又如此之壮丽
I was absolutely about coordinating beauty.
我的任务是呈现美感
雷德利·斯科特，导演
Shot by shot had to be great.
每个镜头都必须非常出色
My weapon was that camera.
我的武器就是摄影机
I'll get what I wanted.
我将得到我想要的
If you're there with me, great.
若能得到你的共鸣，很好
If you're not there with me, too bad.
不然的话，很糟
危险的日子
银翼杀手制作始末
启动日期：1980
剧本与交易
洛杉矶，加利福尼亚
在 1975 年，有人给我一笔钱
In 1975, someone gave me some money.
算是同情我，他们说：“你得
They pitied me. They said, "You gotta...
汉普顿·范彻，执行制片人、编剧
你想做什么都行。 钱拿去
...do what you wanna do. Here's some money.
把钱拿去，写出剧本。”我就这么做了
You can go away and write." And so I did.
结果不成功，你也知道
And it didn't work out, you know.
我以为我会制作一部电影
I thought I would produce a movie.
结果这家伙，吉姆·麦克斯韦，他是我好友，也认识多年了
And this guy Jim Maxwell, who's a close friend and knows me well...
他说：“你可能会……”
...and he said, "You might..."
我说：“我想科幻片是下一波”
I said, "l think science fiction's gonna happen."
他说：“好吧，我知道一个人……”
And he said, "Okay, I know a--"
他说：“你认识菲利普·K·迪克吗？”我说不认识
He says, "You know who Philip K. Dick is?" I said, "No."
他说：“听过一本书，叫做 仿生人会梦见电子羊吗？”
He said, "There's a book called Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?"
我说：“好吧，我会去读。”我读完了，不是很喜欢
I said, "Okay, I'll read that." I read it. I didn't like it that much.
但我想：“行吧，这倒挺商业化的。我们有机会了
But I thought, "Okay, that's commercial. Here's a throughline:
政府探员追杀机器人”
You know, bureaucratic detective chasing androids."
大概在 1978 年，我朋友布莱恩·凯利，他手上有大约五千块美金
In '78 or so, my friend Brian Kelly, he had $5000 or something.
他说：“也许你有机会了。这可能是一部好商业片
He said, "You could get an option. That might be a good commercial project...
你可以当幕后制作，赚点钱”
...that you could get behind and make-- You know, make some money."
我们整天谈的都是赚钱
That's all we were talking about, making some money.
布莱恩·凯利试着说服我两年了
I'd been pursued for about two years by Brian Kelly...
迈克尔·迪利，制片人
他是我的好友，他有个主意
...a close friend of mine, who had this idea in mind...
根据迪克的原著 仿生人会梦见电子羊吗？ 拍一部片
...to make a movie based upon Dick's Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
但我读完后并不觉得有趣
And I'd first read it and thought I wasn't very interested.
他读完后说：“这不可能拍成电影”
He read the book, and he said, "It ain't a movie."
布莱恩回来跟我说：“这实在……”
And then Brian came back to me and said, "That's what--"
我说：“他放屁，那根本是部好电影”
I said, "He's full of shit. There's a movie there."
他说：“你可以写出几页剧本来证明吗？”
He said, "Could you write something down to prove it?"
我写了五页，当做基本架构
So I wrote five pages, what I thought could be a structure.
他拿去给迈克尔·迪利看——我不认识迈克尔·迪利
And he took that to Michael Deeley-- I didn't know Michael Deeley.
布莱恩回来跟我说：“迈克尔·迪利说剧本烂透了”
And Brian came back and said, "Michael Deeley says it sucks."
他拿了本剧本来，不怎么样
Then he came back with a script, which wasn't terrific...
不过还蛮有趣的
...but it was interesting.
不幸的是，汉普顿最原始的剧本
Unfortunately, the scripts Hampton generated initially...
保罗·M·萨蒙， Future Noir: The Making of Blader Runner 作者
并未达到菲利普的期待
...did not meet with Phil's approval, to put it mildly.
他认为这个剧本被过于简化
He thought, again, that it had been dumbed down...
变成一部警探追杀机器人的电影
...that it turned into, you know, a detective just chasing androids around.
他非常保护……
Well, he was really protective...
伊莎·迪克·哈克特，菲利普·K·迪克之女
仿生人会梦见电子羊吗？ 这本小说，我可以理解
...of Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? Understandably so.
在故事里，他对某些事件感触很深
Certain things were dear to him in that story...
大部分是有关人类是什么，之所为人类的原因是什么
... mostly around, you know, what is human, and what makes us human.
汉普顿·范彻的剧本
It was the Hampton Fancher script...
蒂姆·鲍尔斯，阿努比斯之门 作者
让菲利普抱持怀疑的态度，因为里面包含了旁白
...which Phil was skeptical of, because it did include a voice-over.
他写的第一本剧本在架构上
The very first draft that he did was much smaller in scale...
比网络上或任何被讨论过的剧情
...than anything that's been on the lnternet...
都要小多了
...or anything that has been talked about.
大概是……一部低成本……
It was a-- Probably maybe a low-budget...
单一房间的动作片
...maybe a one-room kind of motion picture.
大部分场景都在公寓里，几个街景
And it all took place mostly in apartments, a few street scenes...
到最后瑞秋还自杀了
...and at the very end, Rachael kills herself.
那是一部小电影。我是这么打算的，利用空间
This was a small movie. That's how I wanna do it. It's rooms.
营造一种怪异的气氛，角色们都面对面
You know, a strange movie, but it's, you know, a face-to-face movie.
不断地在对话
People are talking.
我已经想好梦幻阵容，我选的演员完美称职
And I had this dream of actors-- You know, like the right kind of actors.
完美称职的导演
The right kind of actors' director.
汉普顿看过小说后，认为这部片反映出现实社会问题
Hampton saw the novel as reflecting a lot of real-world current concerns.
奇怪的是其中最吸引他的部分
And strangely, one of the largest motivating factors...
居然是原著小说中的生态考虑
...was the ecological concern that is in the original novel.
地球逐渐因为这些世界大战正在慢慢土崩瓦解
The fact that the Earth is slowly falling apart because of these world wars...
产生生态浩劫与这一类的灾难
...and because of these biological plagues and that type of thing.
当然，这些都是污染与人口过剩带来的后果
And, of course, those are all analogues for pollution and for overpopulation.
剧本的发人深省之处来自
The intellectual aspects of the screenplay were taken from my response to...
我对地球上生物灭绝的考虑，还有那对人类的意义
...the death of animal life on this planet and what that meant.
这也是我在看初稿剧本时抱持的心态，我对这个信念抱有热情
That's probably the thing that saw me through it the first draft was I had a passion about that...
因此我对拍这部片的感情非常深
...so my affection for the project was consistent.
最后我终于看到我想要的东西
Finally, when I was really looking for something...
布莱恩带回另一个剧本
...Brian popped back in again with another script.
他告诉我有几个电影公司有兴趣
The way he put it was he told me that he'd got several studios interested...
因为我是他好友，他让我参一脚
...because I was a friend, he'd let me have a crack at it.
我读完后觉得棒极了
And I read it, and I thought it was darn good.
24小时后，我马上问：“何时见面？”
Twenty-four hours later, it was like, "Can we meet?"
他们想着手进行
And they wanted to do it.
我在伦敦发现一本漫画书
It was a comic-book-- Kind of a big--
咖啡桌上那种
Like a coffee-table comic book I found in London...
叫做 麦肯尼兹摩
...called Mechanismo.
这些复制人、回转仪
These, like, replicants. You know, gyro--
钢铁外甲……我爱死这本书了
You know, metallic thi-- I love that book.
我拿给迈克尔·迪利看。我说：”这实在太精采了
And I showed it to Michael Deeley. I said, "This is incredible. This is like--
这就是我们要的视觉效果”
Visually, this is like where we should go."
这是在雷德利之前
And... This is before Ridley.
我说：“我想叫它 麦肯尼兹摩”
And I said, "l wanna call it Mechanismo."
我算是有点说服了他
I kind of talked him into it, so it was Mechanis--
因为有一个剧本的封面上写的就是 麦肯尼兹摩
There's one script where the cover says Mechanismo.
我们最后决定的版本是 危险的日子，我很喜欢
The title we finally settled on was Dangerous Days, which I loved...
因为它与汉普顿写的比较浪漫的剧本较贴近
...because it was very much in tune with the much more romantic script that Hampton had written.
我誓死反对这名字，不过我想反正之后再说
I was dead set against it, but I figured I could get a vote in later.
你们就……反正资金是他们出的
But go ahead and we'll-- They'll finance.
现在暂时就叫 危险的日子 吧
We'll call it Dangerous Days for the time being.
然后迈克尔·迪利想换个名字，叫 银翼杀手
And then Michael Deeley came up with Blade Runner.
我马上就用了
I'd used it already.
是我读巴勒斯的小说看到的名字
You know, it's a term that I got from reading Burroughs.
他有本小说就叫作 银翼杀手
He had a little book. It was called Blade Runner.
接下来的问题是要如何进行
It was a matter now of getting into it.
我们一开始就想找雷德利
We tried to get Ridley from the outset...
但他当时正要拍 沙丘
... but he was, at that point, planning to do Dune.
我正在进行 异形
As I was mixing Alien...
迈克尔·迪利来科艺百代看我
... Michael Deeley had come to see me at EMl.
我从迪利在科艺百代时就认识他了
And I'd known Deeley from his days with EMl.
他说：“我有个剧本叫做 银翼杀手”
And he said, "I've got this script called Blade Runner."
雷德利·斯科特，导演
我说：“我不想再拍科幻片了。我才刚拍完一部
I said, "I don't wanna do another science fiction. I've just finished one.
不过我会看看。”我读完剧本，就是汉普顿·范彻写的
But I'll read it. "And I read the script, which was Hampton Fancher.
原本叫 危险的日子
It was called Dangerous Days.
我回绝了
And I turned it down.
雷德利·斯科特原本是 沙丘 的导演
Ridley Scott was going to be the original director on Dune...
迪诺·德·劳伦蒂斯雇用他，场景都开始盖了
...and Dino De Laurentiis hired him, and their sets were being built.
他们原本要根据原著小说来拍
They were gonna shoot it, and it was going to be based on the novel...
拍成一部大规模的科幻片
...and it was going to be this large-scale science-fiction film.
我会被 沙丘 吸引，是因为它超越我拍的 异形
I was attracted to Dune because it was beyond what I'd done on Alien...
异形 算是很赤裸裸的恐怖片
...which was kind of hardcore kind of horror film.
沙丘 算是非常
And Dune would be a step, very strongly...
非常贴近 星球大战 的走向
...very, very strongly, in the direction of Star Wars.
在这个时候，不幸的事发生了
At this point, something rather sad happened...
雷德利的哥哥去世了
...which was that Ridley's older brother died.
年纪轻轻就过世
Died rather young, obviously.
雷德利马上陷入低潮，他必须继续工作
And Ridley was in some depression. He really had to get to work.
他想做点事情。因为他一开始工作就是个工作狂
He wanted to do something, because when he's working, he's working.
要面对
To be faced with, you know...
卢克·斯科特，雷德利·斯科特之子
自己的亲兄弟死于癌症
...a brother dying of cancer...
就这样死去，通常
...and then to die, it can often--
我想这种无法控制的情形
I think what happened is maybe the lack of control over that...
形成一种黑暗面
...kind of created a darkness.
我记得他常常谈到弗兰克
I remember, you know, him talking about Frank...
艾弗·鲍威尔，副制片人
他的哥哥，我知道他们很要好
...his older brother, from time to time, and I knew that they were very close.
还有……
And...
我知道当时他的死对他有一种
...l know it had a tremendous effect...
极大的情绪冲击
...on sort of his emotional state at that time.
他能拍这部算是比较黑暗
It's a strange coincidence that he's doing a film that is, on the whole, very dark...
关于创造人、控制的电影，算是一种巧合
...about creation, about control.
还有失去控制，输给了死神
And also losing the control and losing the battle over death.
我想我们当时正在拍一部广告
I think we were shooting a commercial.
我记得我当时说服他说：“让我读吧”
I remember sort of having persuaded him, saying, "Look, let me read it."
我记得我是在火车上读的，当时正前往拍片现场
And I think I was reading it on the train while we were traveling to the location.
我说：“我想”
I said, "Listen, I think--"
因为一切事情都那么不理想
Because everything else was kind of not working out right...
我说：“听着，我想你应该，再好好考虑一下”
...l said, "Listen, I think you should give this, you know, a second thought."
“我认为这个剧本真的很棒，充满情绪
You know, "l really think this is powerful, and, you know, emotional...
非常有趣”
...and really interesting."
银翼杀手 就这样驻进我心中
The Blade Runner idea had stuck with me.
我马上就打给迪利 ，说：“你们现在进行到哪了？”
So I'd called up Deeley saying, basically, "Where are you with it?"
“没进展。”“好吧，我又读了一次，我们
"We're nowhere." "All right. I've re-read it. We--
我认为剧本非常有趣。 可以拍成一部非常
I think it's interesting. lt'll make the basis of a very good...
具未来感的都会黑色电影”
...futuristic, urban film noir."
他说：“我们先看过剧本再说。”他看了剧本
He said, "Let's have a look at the material," and he did.
事情就这么成了
And we were off.
当然，那是个非常让人激动的时刻
It was a very exciting moment, of course...
能让一位天才导演这么投入
...for suddenly, you had a talent attached to the thing.
我们跑去找电影之路公司，它刚刚被前环球公司高层
We then went to Filmways, which had just been taken over...
拉斐尔·埃克斯收购
...by a former Universal person, Raphael Etkes.
他人很好，是我的一个老朋友
Very nice guy. An old friend of mine.
我们当时跟电影之路合作，迈克尔也找到联络人
We were with Filmways, which Michael had found a person for that.
不过，他对电影成本的理念
But, of course, his conception of what the budget of this film would be...
在当时当然是大幅超出预算
...at that particular point was way off-course.
我们的预期比真正的预算高太多了
We were way down in terms of our target of where we would be.
我们花了 250 万美金
We'd spent about 2 and a half million...
才知道要建造出我们想要的世界
...by the time it became perfectly clear that the world we were building...
至少得花上 1,250 万美金以上，比这大多了的预算
...was much bigger than 2 and a half million dollars. Much, much bigger.
这让拉斐进退两难
And this put Raphi in a jam...
因为他不能再投入更多资金了
...because he couldn't allocate more than that to this picture.
这是间老公司，并不大，他们没有那种资金
It was an old company, a small one, and they didn't have that much money.
我们开始觉得事情不对劲
I know we were beginning to feel that something wasn't right...
忽然间我们开始在新闻看到
...and then suddenly one read in the trades...
电影之路有经济危机了
...that Filmways was in financial trouble.
突然间大家都在说：“我们有麻烦了
And suddenly we sort of said, well, you know, "Shit. We're in trouble...
我们得找另一个赞助者。”我俩开始准备一个房间
...and we need to find another backer." So we sort of set up this room...
弄出所有美术道具，天知道还有什么
...with all our sort of artwork and God knows what, you know...
像是一种组合屋
...like a kind of package, and sort of...
电影公司的高层人员全都聚在一起
...these VlPs from other studios were kind of wheeled in...
我们给他们特别待遇，看是不是能让他们感到兴趣
...and given the executive treatment to see if we could get them interested...
出资拍片。但是我们开始盖场景
...in taking the movie over. But we were building sets...
开始开起会来
We started to have these meetings...
像是小马拍卖会，所有批发商都来了
...dog-and-pony shows with all the distributors...
大卫·L·斯奈德，美术指导
我们跟米高梅开会
...and we met with MGM...
跟联美开会，当时他们濒临破产危机
...with United Artists, who was on the brink of bankruptcy...
同时我们也盖起场景，找拍片地点等等
And we were building sets and finding locations and all the rest of it.
我们整个工作小组都还没付工资
凯瑟琳·哈伯，执行制作
And we had an entire crew that needed to be paid.
我们觉得要是再不快找到赞助者，整个戏组就要崩溃了
We felt it would collapse if we didn't do something very, very fast.
我首先就是跑去找小艾伦·拉德谈，他是我一个老友
First thing I did was I talked to Alan Ladd, Jr., who's an old friend...
曾经跟华纳兄弟合作过
...who had a deal at Warner Bros.
我们认为这剧本真的很棒
And we thought it was a terrific script...
小艾伦·拉德，拉德公司总裁
我们马上就进入制片过程
...and we put it into production almost right away.
事情是这样的，华纳兄弟透过艾伦·拉德
The way it worked was that Warner Bros., through Alan Ladd...
投资七或者七百万，大约 700 万美金
...put up 7 and a half or 7 million, roughly 7 million...
买下美国的发行权
...against U.S. distribution rights.
只包含院线，不包含电视、数字影碟
Of theatrical, not television or DVDs or any of those things.
“你愿意投资吗？”他说：“先让我读过剧本”
"Would you like to invest in that?" He said, "Let me read the script."
然后他马上回来对我们说：“是的，我确实想投资”
And he got right back to us and said, "Yes, I do want to invest."
他说：“有哪部电影我可以投资？”
He said, "What kind of movies do you have that I could invest in?"
我们说：“我们现在手上有片叫 银翼杀手，导演是雷德利·斯科特
We said, "Well, there's one we're doing called Blade Runner with Ridley Scott.
你愿意投资吗？”他说：“先让我读过剧本”
Would you like to invest in that?" He said, "Let me read the script."
他读完后马上告诉我们：“是的，我确实想投资”
And he got right back to us and said, "Yes, I do want to invest."
最后我们还需要 700 万
And then we needed the last 7 million.
这笔资金来自一家合资公司
And that came from a company which consisted of...
有杰里·佩伦乔、巴德·约金，还有另一个合伙人
...Jerry Perenchio, Bud Yorkin and another partner...
他后来没参加合伙，所以没有投资
...who didn't want to come into the venture and didn't.
坦德制片是一间合资公司，诺曼·李尔和我一起开的
Tandem Productions was a company that Norman Lear and myself started...
巴德·约金，投资人
大约在 银翼杀手 15 年前
...probably 15 years before Blade Runner.
当时我们同时制作电视
And at that time, we were doing television...
与电影
...and motion pictures at the same time.
总是有人不断寄剧本给我们
People were always submitting scripts to us.
电影剧本，主要是电视剧本
Movie scripts, mostly television scripts.
当他们找到我们的时候
And by the time they got to us...
杰里·佩伦乔，投资人
因为我们当时已经不做电影了
... because we weren't, at that point, in the picture business...
他们已经问遍整个城市
...they had been shopped all over town...
大部分公司都没有兴趣
...and most of them were pretty uninteresting...
我们也不太想沾上边
...in things that we didn't wanna get involved with.
不知怎么地，银翼杀手 的剧本跑到我桌上
And somehow the script for Blade Runner ended up on my desk...
我读完后非常喜欢
...and I read it, and I loved it.
我们看到故事分镜板
We saw the storyboards, we saw--
我们喜欢这些道具，我们喜欢这些枪
We loved all the toys, we loved the gun...
还有雷德利的概念蓝图
...and the look that Ridley had in mind for it.
主要就是复制人的故事
The idea was basically one of cloning.
现在我们可以利用基因复制人类了
Here we are able to do it genetically.
我最喜欢这部片的地方就是
That's part of the thing that I liked about it...
这真的是一部充满未来感的黑色电影
...the fact that it really was futuristic and film noir...
我认为票房一定会很成功
...and I thought it could be a big smash hit.
我喜欢菲利普·迪克，我本来也是多年来的科幻迷
I liked Philip Dick, and I was kind of a sci-fi fan for many, many years.
从没想过要拍一部科幻片
Never ever dreamt of making one.
能看到这样的剧本，让我松了一口气
It just seemed to me a great relief just to read something like that...
我从没想过电影可以有这样的场景
...and I had no idea that you could put that on film.
所以我们马上拿出资金
So we got involved in it financially.
他们拿出了 700 万美元，那包括了
They put up $7 million, and for that...
电视、数字影碟与其他版权
...they received all the television and DVD and other such rights...
都包含在内
...to recover their money
还有票房的盈余
and also a share of the surplus, theatrically.
另外
And...
他们决定收一笔费用
...they chose to take a fee.
也就是延迟金，150 万的费用
Admittedly, a deferred fee, but a fee of a million and a half dollars.
保证电影会完成
It was guarantor's completion.
他们想出一个预算
What happens is that they come out with a budget--
为了方便讨论，就说预算是 100 万美元好了
Let's say just for the sake of argument the budget was a million dollars.
如果超过预算，比如到了 120 万美元
--and if they started to go over to $1,200,000...
或者 130 万，随便多少
...or 1,300,000, whatever it would be...
为了完成制作，就得要有人放进那笔完成保证金
...there had to be somebody that would put in that completion money...
弥补拍片超出的 30 万美元
...that would pick up the $300,000 that they were over.
所以如果超过两千一、两百万还是什么的
So if the picture went over 21, 22 million, whatever it was...
他们就必须提供那笔金额
...then they would have to provide that amount...
这就给了他们很多权利
...which gave them a lot of rights.
事实上，他们拿到的权力远远超出我们愿意给的
In fact, it gave them many rights more than we would have given...
如果我们有更多时间谈判就不会这样。不过我们只有两周
...if we'd had more time to negotiate it, which we didn't. We had two weeks.
我很担心会超出预算，因为我跟雷德利合作过 异形
I was worried about going over because I'd done Alien with Ridley...
他拍了许多没用到的片段
...and he shot a lot of film on that.
我们在拍这部片上面
It was such a brand-new way of...
用了许多从前没用过的新方法
...trying to do all the things that they were going to do on this picture.
特效之类的
Special effects and so forth.
大家都很担心要拍上好几个月
Everyone was worried about how many months will it take...
或甚至好几年
...or how many years to make it.
我们试着要把资金结合起来
As we were trying to put together the budget...
我不断跟汉普顿·范彻谈
...l was talking continuously with Hampton Fancher...
我们对这世界的进化逐渐成形
...so our evolution of the world was growing.
我们几乎整天都在工作，每天都是
And we'd work all day, every day, I think.
我不知道有多久，感觉像是几个星期
I don't know how long, but it felt like weeks.
我一直在说：“那不行，不够商业化
I was constantly saying, "That won't work. It's not commercial.
太模糊了。不像电影”
It's too vague. It's not cinematic."
我真的对汉普顿的浪漫情节很严苛
So I was really being the hard man to Hampton's romantic.
我很喜欢汉普顿的剧本。我喜欢他写作的方式
I liked Hampton's script a lot. I loved the way he worked and wrote.
我喜欢他的机智，他对事实的勇敢与坦白
I loved his wit. His gritty way of seeing things and his wit.
雷德利开始问问题，跟汉普顿讨论剧本
Ridley started asking questions, you know, of the script with Hampton...
他一开始就问：“这是个什么样的世界？”
...and started to say, well, you know, "What is the world that we're in?"
“窗户外是怎样的世界？”
"What's outside the window?" You know.
我说：“你什么意思？”
I said, "What do you mean?"
“外面有个世界啊”
"But there's a world."
“去他的世界，剧情就在室内。”我就会开始争论
"Fuck the world. No, this is in here." You know, and I'd argue or whatever.
猎人爱上了猎物
The hunter falls in love with the hunted...
期待他们不走出公寓外，集中在室内戏
...except they never move outside the apartment. It's very interior.
我想把他们带出室外
I wanna take them outside the door.
一旦我们走出门外，这个世界
Once we go outside the door, this world...
必须能支持，她是仿生人、人形的机器人这个前提
...has to support the thesis that she's android, humanoid, robot.
还有一个字因为多次引用、过于滥用
By the way, that's another word I don't wanna use...
我不太想用，我们很快就找到新字
...because it's abused and overused. We'll find a new word for that soon...
我们找到了 复制人 这个词
...which we found the word replicant.
第二天，他带来了一本叫 重金属 漫画书
Next day, he brought in a Heavy Metal comic book.
“哦，耶！”
"Oh, yeah!"
我非常热衷于 重金属 系列漫画
I was very much engaged by the Heavy Metal comics...
我也密切注意一些漫画家，像是让·吉罗「莫比斯」
...and was looking very closely at people like Jean Giraud "Moebius"...
让·吉罗（Jean Giraud），法国大漫画师 笔名莫比斯（Moebius），重金属 创刊人
我认为他是科幻始祖，也是当代最顶尖的漫画家
...who I still regard as probably the father of it all and one of the best.
其中可以看到有宏大的视觉短篇故事
There was some kind of great graphic short story in there...
关于一个现代世界中的警探
...which was about a detective in a modern world.
我知道那在雷德利心中埋下种子
And I know that that seeded something in Ridley's mind...
银翼杀手 的种子
...for the future. You know, for Blade Runner.
因为我知道他的一些画作——如果你看过他的故事板
Because I know some of his drawings-- If you look at some of his storyboards...
我是说，他们有点
...l mean, they are sort of--
不需要雷德利的任何视觉想象，但他就是看到了
Not to take any visual imagination from Ridley, but he just-- He saw it.
雷德利·斯科特的艺术作品
我认为最有趣的就是其间的混合
One of the things I think is interesting about sort of the crossover...
包括 重金属 的作家，如丹·奥班农，或像莫比斯
...from Heavy Metal writers like Dan O' Bannon or artists like Moebius...
像比拉尔这样的艺术家
...artists like Bilal...
凯文·伊士曼，重金属 发行人
天哪，有那么多画家对未来充满许多有趣的想像
God, there's so many that had this really interesting vision of the future...
雷德利也很厉害
...that I think that, you know, to Ridley's credit again,...
他作为一个导演对科幻有兴趣
...being sort of a person that would be interested...
能吸收这么多影响拓展他的视野
...and absorb so many influences to sort of broaden his scope...
增进他说故事与幻想的能力
...broaden his storytelling abilities and his vision...
每一个艺术家都希冀能受灵感启发
...which, you know, I mean, every artist thrives for...
希望自己下一个幻想能带他们到新的层面或另一个层次
...that next inspiration that next vision that's gonna take them to another place or another level.
事情不是直线进行
Nothing's in straight lines.
我不以直线思考
I don't think in straight lines.
我把东西放在毯子上
I put-- I still put things on a blanket...
然后翻过来，观察东西是怎么掉下来的
...and flip it, and see which way it lands, right?
那是唯一找出头绪的方法
That's the only way you find out.
忽然间你开始有了头绪
And then suddenly, you start to formulate logic.
他说：“那雪呢？”
He says, "What about snow?"
“雪？啊，雪。对啊”
"Snow? Yes, snow. Yeah."
他会写下雪的场景
He'll write snow, you know.
“火车里呢？沙漠里呢？如果是……有暖气呢”
"What about it's a train? What about it's a desert? What it's--? Oh, heated."
灵感源源不绝，真的是源源不绝，灵感一直来
You know, all the-- It just kept going.
当他终于……遇到麻烦的时候
When he finally-- When the shit hit the fan the first time...
他说：“汉普顿，我得老实说”
...and he said, "Hampton, I have to be frank with you."
“你花了很大的心血……”他们以前称呼我为“发生快一点”
You know, "You've taking a lo--" They used to call me "Happen Faster."
在合作上 ，雷德利是块金矿
I mean, Ridley's a gold mine to work with.
他有的是美丽的概念
I mean, he's just got beautiful notions.
作为一个编剧你得小心翼翼
And you have to be discreet as a writer, or else he'll go off...
不然他会开始写出一部百科全书
...and, you know, he'll write an encyclopedia.
他想用一种惊人的方式来介绍角色
He wanted to introduce the character in a really spectacular way...
但是他又想在视觉上
...but he wanted to do it in a way that visually got across...
符合这奇妙的未来世界
...the idea of this very, very strange future world...
他开始在心中盖起这个世界
...that he was starting to put together in his own mind.
他必须摒弃先前的版本
He's gotta go retire an earlier version.
他说：“我看到……一个小屋”
And he said, "l see, like, a cabin," you know.
在火炉上，有个锅子
"On the stove, there's, like, a pot...
锅里有汤在滚着”
...and there's soup boiling in the pot."
我的样子就是
I went:
就是那样，老兄
You know, that was it, man.
我很喜欢
I loved it.
锅里汤滚着
Soup boiling in the pot.
我马上跑回家开始写
And I just went home and I just started writing.
原本的想法是让德卡坐在厨房里
The original idea was to have Deckard sit in the kitchen, and as--
从窗户可以看到天越来越黑了
Through the windows, you saw that the day was getting darker and darker.
当时应该是下午近傍晚的时间
And then it was supposed to be late afternoon.
一辆奇怪的车停下
A strange vehicle pulls up.
一个穿着农夫装的人走进房子里
A guy in farmer overalls comes out, goes into the house...
看到德卡坐在那里，假装没看见
...sees Deckard sitting there, ignores him...
走进厨房，开始搅拌一大锅汤
...walks into the kitchen, starts stirring a big pot of soup.
说：“你要喝汤吗？”德卡什么都不说
Says, "Do you want your soup?" Deckard doesn't say anything.
他说：“你是谁派来的？”他继续搅拌
He says, "Who are you with anyway?" This guy's stirring.
德卡站起来说：“我是德卡。银翼杀手”
Deckard gets up, says, "I'm Deckard. Blade Runner."
他杀了这男人。无缘无故就这样杀了他
He kills this guy. For no reason. Just shoots him.
你会心想：“怎么回事？”随着这家伙从墙上倒下
You go, "What is going on?" And then as the guy slumps against this wall...
倒在地上，德卡把手伸向他的脑袋
...falls to the floor, Deckard reaches into his head...
把他的下颚拉出来
...and pulls his lower jaw out.
你会看到这是一个铝合金装置，印有辨识号码
And you see it's an aluminum construct with an lD number stamped on it.
你意识到：“喔，那不是人，只是个机器人”
You realized, "Oh, it's not a person, it's a robot."
然后德卡拿走合金装置
And then Deckard takes this...
放进他穿的大衣外套里
...puts it into his trench coat that he was wearing at this point...
走出农舍，走过田野
...walks out of the farmhouse, across the field...
一只小狗跑出来对他狂吠
...a little dog shows up, starts yapping at his feet...
一直吠着直到德卡离开
...and is barking as Deckard takes off.
我们在前制期，现在参与的人变多了
We're in preproduction, and it's a big table now.
很多人
Huge. Many people.
然后他们说：“有床戏吗？”
And they're saying, "What about the love scene?"
我说：“是有，不是非常露骨而已”
I said, "Well, the love scene's there. It's not explicit."
“那搞露骨点怎么样？”
"What about getting explicit?"
“瞎搞，没门”
"That's bullshit. No way."
我记得我跟汉普顿最大的差别
I do remember one difference that Hampton and I had...
就在于商业性的考量点上
...which goes straight back to the issue of commerciality.
我想要有一个更露骨的做爱场景
I wanted to have a much more visible sex scene.
他们很沉着、很文明
They're cool. They're gentlemen.
我在会议桌上狂吼
You know, I'm, like, walking around the table fuming:
“你们到底要什么，伙计？你们到底要什么？”
"What is it you want, man? What do you want?"
汉普顿认为床戏实在太没品味
Hampton felt that was in rather bad taste at the very least...
他甚至表演给我看
...and he demonstrated it to me...
他以为这样就能说服我
...in a way he thought would convince me that it would be in bad taste.
他好像还亲了我
He may have probably kissed me at one point.
非常有说服力，不过那不是我想要的场景
And it was pretty convincing, but it wasn't quite the scene I had in mind.
我想汉普顿对事情有点过于坚持
I think Hampton got a bit precious about doing things...
当我们想要改点东西的时候，他总是搞得很浮夸
...and it was always a bit of a drama when we wanted things changed.
我记得跟雷德利吵了一架
I remember having an argument with Ridley...
雷德利走进卧室坐在床上
...and Ridley went into the bedroom and sat down on a bed.
我跟着走进去说：“雷德利，我们不能这样拍。因为……”
I'm following him, I said, "Ridley, we can't do that. Here's what--"
他完全不跟我吵
And he wouldn't argue with me, exactly.
我们闹到汉普顿完全累翻了
We got it up to a point where Hampton was just getting exhausted.
回到原始架构，又回到原始架构
Going back to the anvil, back to the anvil, back to the anvil.
我说：“不过如果这样，你就得那样”
I said, "Yeah, but if this, you've got that."
问题是，我说得越多，我突然开始改变了
And the problem is, the more I talk, I suddenly start to evolve.
我很生气，走到游泳池边
I was angry, and I walked out by the pool...
还有艾弗，亲爱的艾弗走出来
...and lvor, lovely, wonderful lvor came out...
他试着告诉我
...and he tried to tell me.
然后
And...
不知怎么的，就很扎心
...it hurt somehow.
艾弗非常善解人意
Coming-- This is the tenderness of lvor.
他没有直接讲明白
Saying-- He didn't come right out and say it.
他说：“如果你不这样做……”
He says, "You know, if you don't do it..."
我记得他使用一种很俚语式的口气
And I remember he reverted to street talk, kind of.
他说：“我知道我的人”
He says, "l know me man."
“他会出手的。他会做他想做的事，汉普顿”
You know, "He'll do something. He'll do what he wants to do, Hampton."
我跟迈克尔坐下来谈：”我该怎么办？我还不到位“
I sat with Michael and said, "What should we do? I'm not there yet."
迈克尔说：“那你想怎么办？”
And Michael said, "Well, what do you wanna do?"
我说：“我们应该让他选择。他想怎么办？让他
I said, "We should give him the choice. What does he wanna do? Let him--
给他两天假，我们谈谈，看看怎么办”
Give him two days off and let's talk about it and see what to do."
我总是希望能留住原始编剧
I always like to keep the writer on, the original writer.
对我来说非常困难
This was difficult in a way...
因为汉普顿从一开始就陪着我们
...because Hampton had been in it from the very start.
他的称号是执行制片
And he was credited as an executive producer...
当然他也依然是
...which he'd remain, of course.
不过在当时，他的日子已经结束了
But his days, for the time being, were over.
我接到一通电话
I get this call...
大卫·皮普尔斯，编剧
雷德利想和我谈谈关于 银翼杀手 这部片
...that Ridley would like to talk to me about Blade Runner or something.
通常我的反应是
And usually, I react to these things as:
“这行不通的。 这会是一个灾……”
"Oh, this isn't gonna work. This is a disa--"
我记得我对迈克说
I remember saying to Mike:
他们请我飞到洛杉矶
So they flew me down to L.A...
让我住马蒙特城堡旅馆的高级客房
...and put me in the Chateau Marmont in this terrific suite...
请一位信差送来剧本
...and sent the script over by messenger, right?
我从来没有受过这样的待遇
Now, I'd never had any of these kind of things happen to me before.
我读了剧本
And I read the script--
坐在那里整整两小时
Two hours or something like that sitting there.
我完全无话可说，我认为剧本棒透了
--and I was knocked out. I thought it was a great script.
雷德利跟迈克尔在约定好的时间走进来
So Ridley and Michael came over at the appointed time or something...
然后他们说：“你觉得怎样？”
...and then they said, "Well, what'd you think?"
我说：“我觉得这剧本棒透了”
And I said, "l thought it was terrific."
我说：“我没办法把这剧本改得更好了”
I said, "l can't make this any better than it is or anything."
结果他们开始发笑
Which-- And they both sort of chuckled, right?
多年后我才知道我的答案有多天真
Like-- And I realized years later what a naive answer that was...
因为谁在乎编剧怎么想的？
...because who gives a shit what the writer thinks?
把剧本改得更好不是我的责任，而是雷德利
It wasn't the writer who was gonna make it better, it was Ridley...
而我只要听他的吩咐就行了
...and I was gonna do his bidding.
雷德利·斯科特的艺术作品
迈克尔用他的语气说：“雷德利有一些想法”
Michael said, "Oh, Ridley has a few ideas," in that Michael way.
我就这样被雇用了
And I got hired.
我记得当时是圣诞夜晚餐，我被邀请到艾弗家吃饭
I remember there was a Christmas dinner I was invited to at lvor's house.
然后
And...
我们坐下来
...we sat down...
他把剧本放在我面前的餐盘上
...he put the script in front of me on the plate.
我不知道那是什么。有时，有人会说
I didn't know what it was. Sometimes, somebody would say:
“你要不要改写剧本什么的？”或者其他什么。我打开剧本
"Hey, you wanna rewrite something," or whatever. And I opened the script...
上面写着……那是我们的电影
...and it said-- It was our movie, you know.
我的电影。然后我打开了第一页，场景是在一个
My movie. And then I opened the first page, and it was in a...
其实开场还不赖。在一个废弃……
Actually, it wasn't a bad scene. It was in a junk--
一种地下废弃场。废弃的仿生人叠在一起
You know, off-world junkyard. You know, androids being plowed under.
彷佛是我用这些堆积的尸体写出一个超现实场景
It was like I just wrote an off-world scene of all these bodies heaped up.
这些坏掉的复制人躺在那儿，堆在一起
Just the wrecked replicants just lying there, you know, in this heap.
忽然间有人从堆里站起来
And then gradually, somebody emerges from the heap...
那就是罗伊·巴蒂
...and it's Roy Batty, right?
那就是我写的开场
And that was a beginning that I wrote.
然后我往下看了几页，因为我认出我的想法
Then I looked at a couple of pages, because I recognized the idea...
然后看到我的访谈场景，也就是电影的开场
...and then I saw my interview scene, you know, that opens the movie.
我看着他，他站在那里。我说：“这是什么？”
And I looked at him, and he was standing. And I said, "What's this?"
他说：“这是新剧本。”我说：“什么新剧本？”
And he says, "This is the new script." And I said, "What new script?"
他告诉我。他说：“这个大卫·皮普尔斯是……”
And he told me. He said, "This David Peoples is--"
我说：“那是谁？”
I said, "Who's that?"
我真的，我什么也听不见了。我站着
I really-- I couldn't hear anything. I was standing--
我站起来是因为我要哭了。我就像，我的整个世界都分崩离析了
I stood up because I was gonna cry. I was like-- My whole world fell apart.
大家会有什么感觉？肯定都很心疼
What's anybody gonna be? lncredibly hurt.
因为他写得实在太好了
Because, you know, what he'd written was fantastic.
忽然有人跑进来拿走你的宝贝
And suddenly to have somebody else come in and take over your baby...
迈克尔·迪利处理人际关系很有一套
Michael Deeley's so diplomatic.
我记得我几乎像是…恳求他：“这是不对的”
I remember kind of, like, beseeching him: "This is wrong." You know.
“不管那家伙……不管这家伙是谁
"Whatever that guy-- Whoever this guy is...
不管是谁写的，不”
...who's writing this stuff, no." It's, like, "Me.
这是我的宝贝啊，你不明白吗？”我记得迈克尔说
Don't you understand?" And I remember Michael saying:
“嗯……”非常圆滑
"Well--" Diplomacy.
他没有说：“嗯，汉普顿，是的，但你是个白痴，我们不能用你”
He didn't say, "Well, Hampton, yeah, but you're an idiot, so we can't use you."
而是说，“你的剧本很优雅
He said, you know, "Yes, your things are very elegant...
但是要拍电影就得这么做
...but this is what we need to do to make the movie.
现在我们要拍一部电影，汉普顿”
Now we're making a movie, Hampton."
皮普尔斯非常
Peoples, I think, is more--
我绝对没有贬低的意思
And I mean this in the best possible way.
他比较简单，汉普顿比较用脑力
Is simpler. Hampton's more cerebral.
他的剧本读起来要用很多脑筋
And, for the most part, this was very cerebral.
我认为让皮普尔斯这样的人加入
And I thought actually bringing in something like Peoples...
能在大厅创造出一种流动的新鲜感
...would maybe create some fresh air in the corridors to make it move.
因为作为一个导演，我的危机在于倾向用脑
Because my danger as a director is I tend to get very cerebral...
过于专注在黑暗与细节上
...and get engaged with darkness and detail.
我想我的第一个故事会议是在马蒙特城堡的套房里
I think my first story meeting was at my suite at the Chateau Marmont.
我试着跟上当时剧情的进度
And I'm trying to follow where we're going with this stuff.
我们走进塞巴斯蒂安的房间
We go into Sebastian's place...
雷德利一直提起
...and Ridley starts talking about a mouse...
会突然冒出来，打领带的老鼠
...that's gonna pop out with a bow tie.
雷德利开始巨细靡遗地描述它
And Ridley started describing it in all these details...
会议开始有点从故事情节
...and the meeting sort of had been derailed now...
脱轨到老鼠身上
...from the story to this mouse.
我坐在那儿，我大概在猜想
And I'm sitting there, and I must have been going:
因为我从来没听过这档事儿
Because I'd never seen or heard anything like this.
迈克尔·迪利就说：“你现在知道了吧？”
And Michael Deeley says, "Now you know."
所以整个故事线并非固定的
So we're in for-- You know, this was not exactly sticking with the narrative.
我们要写的是一只随时都可能冒出来的神奇老鼠
We were dealing with this wonderful, wonderful, magical mouse who'd pop up.
以科幻编剧来说，他非常写实
He was kind of very grounded in sort of sci-fi.
他写的对话很棒
He brought in some good dialogue.
我认为他能成功地弥补一些漏洞
I think he was able, quite easily, to sort of fill in some of the holes.
我帮他们编剧时，他们被我写作的速度吓到
I was writing for them, and they were thrilled that I was so fast.
我不断写着，一页翻过一页，像疯子一样
I was writing pages, turning them out...like a madman, right?
他们先前有汉普顿，不过
And they'd had Hampton, but of course...
汉普顿写了不知道多少草稿
...Hampton had only done like God knows how many drafts for them...
他
...and he...
那些剧情都荒废了
That stuff is wearing and everything...
所以汉普顿是在大概写了十本草稿后
...so we're talking about Hampton after, you know, 10 drafts.
他们才说，“汉普顿，你为什么不这么写？
I don't know. "Hey, Hampton, why don't you try this?
你为什么不那样写？”一改再改让人发疯
Why don't you try that?" And that stuff makes you crazy.
我在那里那么短的时间，我都快疯了
It made me crazy in the short time I was there.
我改了很多巴蒂的戏
I changed Batty a fair amount.
如果我没记错
If I remember right...
德卡在战斗中在大楼屋顶杀了巴蒂
...Deckard just killed Batty off the top of the thing in the fight.
我记得那些台词：“越过猎户座的肩膀”
But I know some of those speeches-- That, "Over the shoulder of Orion"...
是我写的，不过在演员第一次读剧本时
...was me, except for the fact that in the first read-around...
我坐在那儿，演员轮流念稿
...when I sat there and the cast sat at a table and read the script...
鲁特格尔念完后，还继续
...Rutger read that speech, and then went on...
说了好几句关于雨中记忆的台词
...with a couple of lines about memories in the rain.
他像个淘气小男孩般看着我
And then he looked at me like a naughty little boy.
像是要看看编剧是否生气了
Like checking to see if the writer's upset.
我没表现出我不开心的样子，不过当时我
I didn't let on that I was upset, but at the time, I was...
我的确感到威胁
...and I was a little threatened by it and all of that stuff.
后来看电影时，那实在是鲁特格尔精采的贡献
Later, seeing the movie, that was a brilliant contribution of Rutger's.
关于雨的台词，还有雨中之泪的那些台词
That line about the rain, and tears in the rain and stuff.
真的很美，我……那全都是出自鲁特格尔
It's absolutely beautiful, and I've-- You know, that's Rutger.
他们很幸运能找到大卫·皮普尔斯
They had the good fortune to get David Peoples, who--
我后来看到这部电影，我心想
I mean, I see that movie, afterwards, and I think:
“对哦。”我就不会那么写
"Oh, yeah." And I would have not done that.
大卫知道该怎么写，大卫跟雷德利合作愉快
You know, David knew how to do this, and David worked well with Ridley.
一开始，他只是按照雷德利要求的去写
lnitially, he just did what Ridley asked.
那正是我们当时需要的
Which, at that time, we really needed.
我们需要把剧本写出来
We needed to put the damn script to bed...
因为所有人……只要有事情改变
...because everybody-- You know, every time something changes, you know...
就像是种多米诺骨牌效应
...there are kind of domino repercussions.
雷德利后来才发现，在汉普顿的最终剧本上
Ridley found that much later, with the final Hampton script...
在汉普顿写出他认为
...after Hampton had done everything...
雷德利所想要的一切后
...that he thought Ridley wanted...
还是无法像大卫·皮普尔斯一样
...it still didn't have what Ridley finally felt...
写得如此契合雷德利的意
...he could only get from David Peoples...
后者的剧本更为尖锐
...which was a much harder edge, and really the character...
符合他要的角色和电影的本质
...the nature of the film which he was doing.
我完全错了，雷德利是对的
I was completely wrong, Ridley totally right...
皮普尔斯绝对是正确的
...and Peoples was definitely totally right.
如果没找人改变剧本，就不会有 银翼杀手 了
If that hadn't happened, there would be no Blade Runner.
脸红心跳
角色大集合
剧本里没有描述德卡这个角色
Deckard's character is not described in the script.
任何一位演员都能担纲演出
Any actor could play it, really.
这取决于演员如何来演绎这个角色
It was up to the casting to tell about the character.
迈克尔·迪利，制片人
其中一位出色演员是罗伯特·米彻姆
One of the more interesting one's that Hampton actually lobbied for was Robert Mitchum.
保罗·M·萨蒙， Future Noir: The Making of Blader Runner 作者
罗伯特·米彻姆
Robert Mitchum, of course...
是 40 年代最典型的黑色电影演员之一
...is one of the quintessential noir actors of the '40s.
所以我肯定汉普顿也想过这一点
So I'm sure that Hampton had that in mind...
在他想着
...when he was actually thinking about the person...
最终让谁来扮演大荧幕上的德卡的时候
...who would ultimately be portraying Deckard on the screen.
罗伯特·米彻姆在当时还很年轻
Robert Mitchum, at that time, was still young enough...
汉普顿·范彻，执行制片人、编剧
仍壮健强硕能够饰演德卡
...you know, still robust enough to be Deckard.
那就是我想要的人，那正是我编写的角色
And that's who I wanted, and that's who I wrote it for.
我便根据米彻姆的角度撰写台词对话
And I wrote dialogue based on my sense of Mitchum.
然后总是会有许多来自各方的意见
There was other-- Of course, like always, you know, a thousand suggestions...
像达斯汀·霍夫曼
...like Dustin Hoffman...
那点子有一阵子还挺行得通的
...and that was starting to actually work for a minute.
结果我便开始觉得不对劲
But then I jumped on, you know, whore that I am, or should've been:
“如果不能那么做便拍不成……”
"You mean we won't have a movie if we don't--?"
他们当初是那么说的。迪利说：“那算了吧”
That's what they tell you. Deeley was saying, "Then forget it."
因为我的反应很激烈
Because I was like, "No way."
现在看来可能很奇怪，但当时感觉这主意不错
Seems strange now, but at the time, it seemed a very interesting idea...
用一个不太有英雄气魄的人
...to have this unlikely, not really very heroic figure...
出演这部邪恶气息很重的电影
...in this rather sinister movie.
当然，当时的想法是
雷德利·斯科特，导演
Of course, the thought was:
“达斯汀固然不是一般人想像的英勇警察形象
"Yeah, but Dustin is not exactly physically your heroic cop.
虽然他身手矫健，但他并非合适人选”
And although he's athletic, he's not the man."
我说：“他是个很棒的演员，我想让他试试这个角色”
I said, "Yeah, but he's a great actor, and I wanna go for the character."
我不认识达斯汀，也不熟悉他当时的工作情况
And I didn't know Dustin and how he worked in those days...
但我去了纽约，和他约谈了好几个小时
...but I went to New York and met him for hours and hours.
达斯汀主要的兴趣是针对影片的调性
Dustin's interest was in the nature of the film.
考虑它是否为一部重要的社会电影
It was about whether it was a major social document.
它的作用何在？它如何扩展观众的想象力？
What did it do? How did it enlarge the imagination or whatever, the mind?
在当时牵涉到许多社会议题
And there was a lot of social implications attached at that time.
我们知道后便决定要用达斯汀·霍夫曼
We heard that, well, okay, we're gonna get Dustin Hoffman.
大卫·L·斯奈德，美术指导
这样安排很理想，如果仔细看分镜板
This will be great. As a matter of fact, if you look closely at the storyboards...
曼陀·许布纳当时已开始描绘影像
...Mentor Huebner was starting to lay in images...
角色模样非常类似达斯汀·霍夫曼
...that were similar-looking to Dustin Hoffman...
不同于他之前绘出的角色模样
...as opposed to the characters he had drawn before.
我们花了几个月的时间和他在纽约
We spent months with him. Months in New York and around the place.
互相熟悉彼此
We all got to know each other very well...
但随着时间的推移，我们越来越偏离
...but the longer we went on, the further and further we got away...
原来的拍片计划以及我们想要的安排
...from the project which we had and the project which we liked.
我们看过许多人。其中很吸引人的是哈里森·福特
We looked at various people. One who seemed attractive was Harrison Ford...
因为他当时并没有拍过类似这样的角色
...because he hadn't played this sort of person, really...
也受过许多优秀导演的调教
...and he'd had some very good training under some good directors.
我一直喜欢哈里森·福特
I liked Harrison Ford always.
我是说，我第一次见到他是在 窃听大阴谋，一些关于
I mean, The Conversation was the first time I saw him, and something about--
当然，还有，我们看了 星球大战
And, of course, then we saw Star Wars.
他在 星球大战 的表现很令人刮目相看
And I was really impressed with Star Wars...
他的角色并不好演
... because that's not easy to do, what he did.
埃罗尔·弗林演的就没他好，那很难演
Errol Flynn didn't do it as good as he did it, and that's hard.
他是个超级演员
That guy knew-- That guy is a super actor.
超级电影明星
Super film actor.
说来我也挺幸运的
It's the luck of the draw that I happened to fall into...
因为我拍了几部科幻片，结果票房和口碑都很出色
...a couple of science-fiction-type films that were successful.
哈里森·福特，德卡饰演者
我很喜欢我拍的科幻电影
I like the films I've made that were basically science fiction.
我觉得那主题很有意思
I found them interesting.
但是我个人对科幻并没有特别的喜好
But I don't have a particular appetite or taste for it, I don't think.
我知道他当时人在伦敦工作
I knew he was in London, working in London...
在拍 夺宝奇兵
...doing this thing called Raiders of the Lost Ark.
一开始是芭芭拉·赫尔希向汉普顿芬奇推荐
Barbara Hershey was the one who initially suggested to Hampton Fancher...
找哈里森·福特来演这角色
...that Harrison Ford was someone to consider.
芭芭拉打电话给斯皮尔伯格问：“那片子剪辑起来如何？”
Barbara calls Spielberg, says, "What's that like, editing that film?"
斯皮尔伯格说：“他现在是大明星了”
Spielberg says, "Huge star now."
迈克尔和雷德利飞到伦敦去看样片
The boys, Michael, Ridley, fly to London to look at dailies.
他的表现非常精彩，我们都非常赞赏不已
He just looked fantastic, and we just thought he was wonderful.
都认定就是他了。当时唯一不太对劲的是
We were convinced. The only thing that went wrong was that...
当他走进饭店大厅和我们会面时
...when he came into the hotel lobby to talk to us afterwards...
他戴了一顶帽子，他总是戴那种印第安纳帽
...he was wearing this hat, which he always wore, this lndiana hat.
雷德利很生气，因为他原本打算用那顶帽子的
And Ridley was cross because he had intended to use that hat himself.
我记得当我读剧本时
I remember that I read the script...
我觉得很有趣
...which I thought was interesting.
我当时看的是该片的初版剧本
At the-- The first version that I read of it of the film
当时有些问题，我对它有点问题
had some issues-- I had some issues with.
原始剧本上有旁白的叙述
There was a voice-over narration attached to the original script.
我对雷德利说，我演的是个不进行侦察的警探
And I said to Ridley that I played a detective who does no detecting.
我们何不将部分旁白内容拿来
How about we take some of this information that's in the voice-overs...
应用于某些场景
...and put it into scenes?
这样观众便能自行发掘讯息，了解角色个性
And so that the audience could discover the information, discover the character...
透过这角色的一举一动来了解剧情
...through seeing him in the context of what he does...
而不是由旁白来叙说
...rather than being told about it.
有些旁白应用上了，有些没有
And some of that survived and some of it didn't.
我们花了几个星期围坐在我的厨房里
We spent a couple of weeks sitting around my kitchen table...
试图想出解决办法
...trying to find ways to accomplish that.
随后在洛杉矶的会议中
With meetings that followed in Los Angeles...
他的反应很热烈
...he got carried along with the enthusiasm of:
他想再拍一部科幻片
A, doing another science fiction--
他当时已是炙手可热的明星，星球大战、夺宝奇兵
Because he's on a really good roll now, Star Wars, Indiana Jones.
所以不管拍什么片，都很出奇制胜
So whatever it is, it's really exotic, okay?
而且别忘了，他还有其他很拿得出手的出色发挥
And don't forget, he's had his little taste of other things with the best:
弗朗西斯·福特·科波拉的 窃听大阴谋
Francis Ford Coppola in The Conversation.
弗朗西斯·福特·科波拉的 现代启示录
And Francis Ford Coppola in Apocalypse Now.
虽然戏分不重，但是他毕竟有演出
Teeny things, but nevertheless, he's been there.
他总是跟大制作拍片
He's always been in pretty good company.
现在我却提出一个怪怪的片子
Here I am, coming in with this kind of weird thing...
有点让人搞不清的迂回剧情
...if not a little confounding because it's not straightforward, right?
很有马洛的影子
It's very Marlowesque...
克里斯托弗·马洛，英国诗人，剧作家，与莎士比亚同年出生
非常晦暗
...and very dark.
哈里森的人和笑容
Harrison has that loose, wonderful...
带有一点玩世不恭、不经意的感觉
...devil-may-care smile and attitude.
他很有架势，身手矫健
And he has a wonderful presence, he's a good athlete.
迈克·芬顿，选角导演
哈里森感觉上不拖泥带水
Harrison's naturally laconic...
机智
...dry wit...
且聪明
...and smart.
所以你最好准备好面对他
So you better be ready.
当我们选角的时候，雷德利在看不同的演员
When we were casting, and Ridley was looking at different actors...
我让他在试片间坐下
...l made him sit down in the screening room...
欣赏 娼妇凯蒂，青葱岁月 和 土耳其狂欢
均为鲁特格尔参演电影
...and look at Katie Tippel, Soldier of Orange and Turkish Delight.
凯瑟琳·哈伯，执行制作
我说：“这就是巴蒂，你得认清楚”
And I said, "This is Batty. I mean, you've got to realize that."
他说：“当然”
And he said, "Absolutely."
然后他真的就选了鲁特格尔，甚至从来没有见过他
And he actually cast Rutger without ever having met him.
他这个人总是很奇装异服
He came in-- Because he was always a weird dresser, this guy.
他是个大个子，穿着一件紫色尼龙连体衣
He was a big man, and he was wearing a puce nylon jump suit...
一整个拉链从下拉到顶
...it was a one piece zip-up.
一件 KENZO 毛衣，上面有只红眼大狐狸
A Kenzo sweater that had a big fox across the shoulder with two red eyes.
他已经把头发剪成了他认为巴蒂应该的样子
He had already cut his hair the way he thought Batty should look...
短而挺立的金发
...which was the short, short, pointed blond hair.
他戴着埃尔顿·约翰的绿花太阳眼镜
And he was wearing green, floral kind of Elton John sunglasses.
我们很高兴你找到了我们
We're so happy you found us.
说真的我可以看到雷德利要心脏骤停了
I could literally see Ridley's heart stop.
“这就是我的刺头了？”
"This is gonna be my tough guy?"
我……
And l...
我说：“雷德利，我可以向你保证，那家伙就是巴蒂”
And I said, "Ridley, I can assure you that the guy is Batty."
当然，那是鲁特格尔故意跟雷德利开的玩笑
And, of course, obviously, it was, you know, Rutger playing a joke on Ridley...
也许并不是
...or maybe he wasn't.
然后我和雷德利碰面
Then I had a meeting with Ridley.
那种机会千载难逢
You only have that a few times in your life.
天南地北无所不聊，很开心地享受一顿午餐
You talk about all kinds of stuff, and you're having a good lunch.
鲁特格尔·哈尔，罗伊·巴蒂饰演者
话题总绕不上正事，但其实也没那么重要
And you never get to the subject, and it doesn't really matter that much.
但我想最后我说：“雷德利，那 银翼杀手 这部电影怎样？”
But I think at the end I said, "Ridley, so, what about this Blade Runner?"
“究竟是何种风貌？”
You know, "What does it look like?"
他说：“我受过最大的影响之一是
And he said, "Well, you know, one of the major influences for me...
是比拉尔。”这人是法国的一个漫画家
...is Bilal," which is a cartoonist in France.
我碰巧知道那个漫画家，我就说：“哇哦”
And I happened to know that cartoonist, and I went: "Wow."
关于角色的讨论是——我想是在我们的第二次谈话
The talk about character was-- I think it was almost in the second talk we had...
这在签约之前，我向他解释
...before I got signed on, where I explained to him, you know...
我觉得这角色有趣的地方
...what I thought would be interesting for the character...
我对他说
...and basically saying, you know:
“我可不可以加入其他元素 ？“
"Can I put in all the things that don't belong there?"
有关人类的一些惊艳元素？
The things that are so amazing about people, you know?
诗意、幽默感
Sense of poetry, sense of humor.
性之感
Sense of sexuality.
童稚感、灵魂感
Sense of the kid, sense of soul.
雷德利说：“那些我都喜欢
And Ridley said, "You know, I like all of them.
我会全部采用，再想办法将这些元素一个个应用进去
Keep them in. We'll work with them. When we'll find a way to get...
放进不同的场景里”
...you know, get them out in different scenes."
那时和今天截然不同
In those days, different from today...
我们在片厂实际进行了几次试镜
...we actually did real studio screen tests.
那些做法程序非常复杂昂贵
And they were quite elaborate, and they were quite expensive.
拍摄的工作人马并不多
And you had a short crew in to shoot them.
瑞秋试镜
很显然雷德利并不满意
And obviously, Ridley was not convinced...
当时女演员的表现
...that any one of our young women was the girl to go with.
我们想找个人，说白了，想找个生脸蛋
We wanted somebody who nobody would recognize, frankly.
新出道的
Somebody completely new.
妮娜·艾丝洛德
我的经纪人打电话部我一件很奇怪的事，他说
My agent called me with a strange request. He said:
“有个导演，雷德利·斯科特
"There's this director, Ridley Scott.
他在拍一部科幻片，名叫 银翼杀手
He's doing this sci-fi picture named Blade Runner...
摩根·保罗，戴夫·霍尔登饰演者
他想让你当哈里森·福特”
...and he wants you to be Harrison Ford."
我说：“你什么意思，当哈里森·福特？
I said, "What do you mean be Harrison Ford?
你在说什么？”
What are you talking about?"
他说：“他们需要去试拍几个女孩
He said, "Well, they need to test a bunch of girls...
饰演他的心仪对象，还有剧中的另一位女孩
...to be his love interest and another girl in this picture...
他认为你长得有点像他”
...and he thinks you bear some resemblance," or something.
所以我便答应去试拍
And so I agreed to do it.
结果和雷德利碰面很有意思
And it turned out to be a lot of fun. Met Ridley.
我们去了华纳公司的片厂
We went to the Warner Bros. stage...
他请每位女演员拍同样的片段
...and he had blocked every girl for the same thing...
所以我基本上是和她们对戏
...so that I was, you know, basically feeding them...
好让她们都能有同等的表演机会
...so it would be an equal treatment kind of deal.
我每次就以同样的方式演哈里森的角色
And I'd be Harrison, pretty much the same way each time.
唯一表现出众而且能立刻带出感觉的
The only girl who departed from the blocking and everything right away
就是肖恩·杨
was Sean Young.
杨说：“我们不要那样做”
Young says, "We're not gonna do it this way."
我说：“哦，这太棒了”
And I said, "Oh, this is great."
雷德利和我都迁就她，我问
And Ridley, you know, indulged her. And I indulged her, I said:
“你要我和这女孩演对手戏吗？”他说：“好啊”
"Fine. Do you want me to play with this girl?" He said, "Yeah."
我在选角过程中遇到她，她让我想起了
I met her in a casting session, and she just reminded me...
费雯·丽，乱世佳人 女主演员
费雯·丽，不晓得为什么
...funny enough, of Vivien Leigh for some bizarre reason.
我总觉得她具有费雯·丽的强悍感
And I always thought that acerbic toughness that Vivien Leigh had...
除了她的美貌以及独特的气质之外
...apart from being extremely beautiful and quirky, was...
她当初需要的是聪智
An intelligence was what she needed.
我想他当初了解到自己可以拍出一部经典佳人的戏
I think he recognized that he could make a classic-beauty type of picture...
肖恩·杨，瑞秋
由我主演
...you know, with me in it.
我很喜欢她的表现
I like what she did a lot.
不是那种心醉神迷
They were less enamored.
她样子很美
She looked beautiful...
艾弗·鲍威尔，副制片人
但我当时不太确定她的演技能够担任女主演
...but I wasn't absolutely convinced about her as an actress.
肖恩·杨之所以被选中，是因为在雷德利眼中
Sean Young was cast because she was, in Ridley's eyes...
她是视觉上最完美的瑞秋
...the perfect Rachael, visually.
他一选中她之后便要我多训练她
As soon as he cast her, he told me that he wanted me to work with her...
好让她可以……让她的表演符合她的外貌
...so that she could-- Her performance could match her look.
我记得当初得到演出机会时有点害怕
I remember being a little freaked out when I heard that I got the part.
我记得我还有点沮丧
I remember being, like, almost depressed a little bit.
我知道这反应有点奇怪
I know that's kind of a strange reaction...
但我想因为我获得演出机会时
...but I think that it was because when I got the part...
我知道我得努力演好那个角色
...l realized I'd have to live up to the responsibility of playing the part
我当时还很年轻
and I was pretty young...
我对自己的实力和其他人的期望都不甚清楚
...and it was very unknown to me what would be expected of me.
所以我有点害怕了
So I was probably a little scared.
她的样子如此完美，如此清纯，恰到好处
She just came across so perfectly superior and so right.
美若天仙
And utterly beautiful.
她美得像是人造的
I mean, she could be an android.
她很有可能是人造出来的
She may still be an android, for all I know.
我记得第一次试镜是在一辆小拖车里
And I remember the first audition was in a small trailer...
在二十世纪福克斯的停车场
...on the 20th Century lot.
在原本的剧本里
Originally, in the screenplay...
普莉斯应该要挂在吊环上
...Pris was supposed to be sort of dangling on these rings.
达丽尔·汉娜，普莉丝饰演者
练体操的那种
You know, the gymnastic rings.
可是那场打斗戏并没有任何与体操相关的东西
And there wasn't any kind of gymnastic stuff incorporated into the fight.
只是在体操馆里罢了
It was just taking place in a gymnasium.
我从前小时候是学校体操运动员
And so I had been a gymnast as a kid in school...
我便向雷德利建议我可以做点体操动作
...and so I suggested to Ridley that I could do gymnastics...
将体操动作加进我的打斗戏里
...and that maybe I could put that into the fight sequence.
我记得他那里还问我什么是体操动作
And so I remember he asked me to show him what gymnastics meant...
秀一点给他看
...and what that was.
我便做了几个后翻动作给他看，就在拖车里
So I did a back walkover or something like that for him in the trailer...
就是这样
...and that was it.
我见过达丽尔，达丽尔很好
I'd met Daryl, and Daryl was pretty well it.
一见到她，我立刻喜欢上了达丽尔
I liked Daryl immediately on meeting her.
她的身材体格十分完美
She's kind of, you know, perfect physically.
她很聪明。非常古灵精怪
She's bright. She's got this quirky side to her.
我们被叫来做试镜
We were called to do screen tests...
普莉斯试镜
当场还有其他四名等着试镜的女演员
...and there were four other women who were testing for the part.
她们和我截然不同
All completely different from me.
你叫什么名字？
What's your name?
普莉斯
Pris.
史黛西·内尔金长得很美，很娇小
Stacey Nelkin, perfect, tiny, you know?
一头卷发，脸蛋很甜美
Like, little curls and the most beautiful face...
身材又很棒
...and this, you know, va-va-voom body...
体形娇小的完美身材
...but, like, small and perfectly proportioned.
史黛西·内尔金
我记得片场烟雾很浓
I do remember the set being exceedingly smoky.
和在酒吧里不一样，还更糟。至少在当时是如此
It's not like being in a bar, it's worse. At least in those days.
那一定是雷德利安排的
Ridley must have said that was part of it.
片中当时想表现出大环境已经影响到肺部的健康
The environment had already started to, you know, break down the lungs...
那一类的事情
...and all of those things.
每个前来试镜的人都有机会塑造自己的角色
Everybody who was screen testing got to create their own character.
有机会和化妆组碰面
You know, had days to meet with the Makeup team...
还有服装组
...and the Wardrobe team.
我记得我找到了那顶假发，在一个装满东西的篮子里
And I remember I had found that wig in a basket full of stuff.
看起来很酷，所以那角色便从那顶假发开始设计
And, you know, it looked cool, and then kind of built from that.
我看过沃纳·赫尔佐格导演的 诺斯费拉图
And I had seen Werner Herzog's Nosferatu...
诺斯费拉图，吸血鬼形象
我记得那油灰盖住的眉毛
...and I remembered the sort of puttied-out eyebrows...
眼睛弄成黑眼圈，像克劳斯·金斯基的那种空洞眼睛
...and then the black circle-- You know, black hollow eyes of Klaus Kinski.
克劳斯·金斯基，波兰裔德国男演员，与沃纳·赫尔佐格是好友
我的造型灵感便是从那儿来的
And so I was inspired by that kind of.
我盖掉我的眉毛，然后涂黑我的眼圈
And so I puttied out my eyebrows and did that sort of black thing on my eyes.
试镜过程持续了整整一天一夜
The screen-test process was an entire day and night.
还起了个大早做头发、化妆做造型等
I think it was a pretty early call to get in Hair and Makeup and everything.
我们大家彼此没有太多沟通机会
And we were pretty much kept isolated from one another.
整个制作流程非常严谨
It was very, very well and thoroughly produced.
摄影棚有个很大的晚餐布景
They had a big dinner set on the sound stage...
就像拍片的午餐放饭的地方
...like they do on, you know, movie lunch breaks.
我便跑去那里
And I actually went in for that.
那是我第一次见到其他女孩
And that's the first time that I got to see the other girls.
莫妮卡·梵·德·冯看起来像个洋娃娃
And Monique van de Ven looked like a doll.
她的那个样子就好像
And, you know, she was all, like, sort of...
一个崭新的洋娃娃
...beautiful new doll woman.
而我就像个怪胎
And I was like a freak.
不折不扣的怪胎
I was like a total freak show.
我像个大巨人，因为我穿着很高的鞋子
I was, like, giant because I had these big platform shoes on...
丝袜全是破洞，还有那顶怪假发，黑眼圈
...and ripped-up stockings and this fright wig and, you know, black eyes.
我就开始哭了
And I just started crying.
我只是个十几岁的女孩。我环顾四周，我想
You know, I was a little teenage girl. And I just looked around, I thought:
“噢，天哪，我把自己变成了一个怪物”
"Oh, my God. I've made myself into a monster."
而其他人都看起来那么美
And everybody else looked so beautiful.
嗨
Hi.
雷德利当初没料到我个子这么小
Ridley just didn't think, because I was so tiny...
根本不可能打败哈里森·福特
...that I could conceivably beat up Harrison Ford.
他想的没错。 这点我承认
And he's right. You know, I mean, I buy that.
所以我当时很失望没错
So that was, you know, the big letdown...
因为当时我认为一定是我，和其他几个人能拿到角色
...because I do think it was down to me and, you know, just a few other people.
我想当时还有一点时间
I think there was a bit of time that passed...
他们便决定再加入一个书里原有的角色
...before then they decided they wanted to add this part that was in the book...
即第五个复制人，玛丽
...of this fifth Replicant, Mary.
玛丽这个角色很棒
And Mary was a fabulous part.
有一场很美的戏。 她当时快死了
There was a beautiful scene. She was dying...
她非常脆弱
...you know, and she was extremely vulnerable.
她已经完全崩溃了
She had already completely broken down.
当时刚好遇上编剧罢工
At the time, the writers' strike had happened.
情况很糟。每个人都去当纠察抗议
And it wasn't good. Everybody was picketing...
谣言四起，当时时机真的很糟糕
...and, you know, rumors, and, you know, it was a very bad time.
我打电话给迈克尔和他讨论
And I was calling Michael and actually talking to him on the phone.
他说：“亲爱的，我们还没写到你的角色”
Him saying, "Well, darling, you know, we haven't gotten to your part yet."
“罢工还在继续，我们——”
And, you know, "The strike has gone on, and we--"
整个局势很不尽人意
You know, and the whole thing. And...
“我们还没制作到那里，所以我们得把你的部分删掉了”
And, "We haven't gotten there, and we're gonna have to cut your part out."
我当时真的很……很难过
And...it was just... It was devastating.
她当时一定很失望，但是我们必须
God, she must have been so disappointed. But we had to--
我们已经开始排期拍片，我也结束了选角手续
We stared at the schedule-- And I'd finished my casting sessions.
大家都就位了
Everyone was in place.
我们看了预算, 我说
--and we looked at the budget, and I said:
“我得删减预算”
"I've gotta cut things out.
哪些场景不能盖，哪些档期排不了
We can't even build this. We can't even schedule this."
所以她可以来演后来会死掉的复制人
So she was-- Would be one of the Replicants who would die.
会有个醒来的复制人
There would be a Replicant's fu-- Wake.
有点像是苏醒过来的吸血鬼，那一定很酷
There was a bit of-- Like the wake of the vampires. It would've been cool.
到头来他们问我
I was asked at the end of the days...
每个角色最适合的人选是谁
...you know, who I thought was the best for each role.
因为我和她们每个都排练过
Because I'd then rehearsed with each one of them...
所以我对她们的演技有些概念
...so I knew a little bit about how they were approaching things...
我也和她们试镜过
...as well as doing the actual test.
我说我认为：“达丽尔·汉娜演普莉丝最适合
And I said, "Well, it's hands down Daryl Hannah for Pris."
妮娜·艾丝洛德演瑞秋最适合
And it was hands down Nina Axelrod for Rachael.
但雷德利说他认为是肖恩·杨演最适合
And Ridley said, "Well, I think Sean Young."
哈里森大概想再找人
Harrison was probably looking for somebody...
他对用新手感到很紧张
I think he was nervous about a first-timer.
他大概心想
I think he probably did it being:
“糟糕，那这样做呢？那这个呢？她呢？“
"Oh, no. What about this? What about her? What about her?"
我说我都试过了，你不觉得她们太老、太世故吗？
I said, "Well, I tried that. Don't you think they're a bit old? Or a bit worldly?
我们要的是较不世故的女演员
We want somebody who's less worldly."
我们讨论了一会儿，他的反应不是很能接受
So we went through a bit of that. He wasn't thrilled.
但是一旦开拍，哈里森真的很敬业
Once it's on, it's on. Harrison's a consummate professional.
一旦决定怎么做，他就会很尽力
Once it's it, that's it. You go.
试镜部分结束之后，雷德利说
At the end of all these tests, Ridley said:
“表现太好了。 和你共事真有意思“
"That was terrific. It was fun working with you."
我说：“太好了。你也是”
I said, "Great. You too."
然后他说剧中有个角色可以给我
So he said, "Well, I think we got a role in this for you."
我说：“是吗？是什么角色？“
I said, "Oh, you do? What would that be?"
他说：“是个专门面试这些复制人的人
He said, "He's a guy who kind of interviews these Replicants...
是在故事的开场，我们还没想到细节
...at the beginning, and we hadn't even thought about it.
到时再打给你的经纪人。”我说好
I'll call your agent and explain it to him." I said, "Sure, fine."
结果我很开心结束试镜回家
So I got home, was happy to do the test...
我果然接到一通电话
...and sure enough, got a call...
要我接演霍尔登这个角色，我觉得简直太棒了
...was offered this role of Holden, which I thought was terrific.
当我从经纪人手中取得剧本后
When I got the script from my agent...
我要打电话给雷德利说
...you know, I told him to call Ridley and say:
乔安娜·卡西迪，卓拉饰演者
“我要演玩蛇人
"I've got the snake.
我不要他去找别人
So, you know, you can't go to anybody else...
因为我知道怎么弄蛇“
...because I know how to work with a snake."
那是条缅甸蛇，很酷的一条蛇
The darling was a Burmese python, and he was a very cool snake.
差不多八岁大，它拍起片来表现很棒
He was about 8 years old. He did those scenes just perfectly.
我认为她综合了很出色的体态爆发力
I thought she was a very impressive combination of physical power...
以及女人味和性感，她的肢体极具爆发力
...feminism, to great sexuality. She's really powerful physically.
她整个女性胴体感觉真的很棒
As a whole physical female type, she's great.
要找人演魁梧女子，她是最适合的人选
If you're gonna cast an Amazon, there she is.
身手非常矫健，所有女孩子当中身手最厉害
Very athletic. And really, of all of them, the most athletic...
最能在各种情况下做出表现的一个
...and the most able to perform whatever feats had to be performed.
绝对是一个蛇蝎美女角色
Definitely the femme fatale. I mean, l--
我刚好符合这角色的要求
I sort of really fit right into that.
我当然会被选中去演
So, you know, of course I was going to be cast...
有点危险性的角色
...as someone that was slightly dangerous.
她是女超人。 她被塑造成像个男人一样强壮
She was Superwoman. She was built to be as strong as a man.
她是个神力女超人，她的体力就像男人一样强壮，几乎像个机器人
And, I mean, like, almost, you know, machine-like.
但是仍带有女性的娇柔
And yet there was a femininity there.
雷德利和我经常讨论这些事，她是个很坚强的女性
And Ridley and I talked about this a lot. About-- She was just a survivor.
我认识艾迪有好一段时间了
Eddie I'd known for a long time.
我把他带去见雷德利
And I brought him in to meet with Ridley.
是艾迪想出要演一个多重国籍
And it was Eddie's idea to play a multinational...
多重族裔，多国语言的角色，一个有自己语言的角色
...multiethnic, multilingual character who had a vocabulary of his own.
那很有意思，因为艾迪问：“这城市语是哪种语言？”
That was tricky, because Eddie was saying, "What's this Cityspeak?"
所以艾迪逼等我做出世界语的安排
So Eddie, God bless him, drove me crazy coming up with ideas of Esperanto...
以及说话的韵律感
...and rhythms of speech...
事实上他所要讲的话，内容辞意
...that actually vaguely dovetailed and made sense into what he had to say...
就戏剧效果而言很模糊不精，他对这方面很执着
...in terms of the drama. He was absolutely obsessed with that...
很坚持要搞对
...getting that right.
城市语在剧本里并未确切描述出，至少编剧们没写得很清楚
Cityspeak was never nailed down on the page, at least not by the writers.
那是艾迪·奥莫斯的点子
That all came from Eddie Olmos.
艾迪在准备诠释加夫这角色的同时
Eddie, during his preparation for the role of Gaff...
还去洛杉矶的贝立兹语言学校
...went to the Berlitz School of Languages here in Los Angeles...
上过几堂课
...took some lessons...
并学到几个匈牙利语、德语、法语的主要词汇
...and found out some key phrases from Hungarian, German and French...
加入他所谓的城市语里
...that he then rolled into what he considered to be Cityspeak.
那便是他对德卡说的话
And that's what he's talking to Deckard...
就在影片开场，面摊子那场戏里
...at the beginning of the film at the noodle bar.
主要是匈牙利语
And it's primarily Hungarian.
听说 银翼杀手 在匈牙利电影院播出时
And I've heard that when Blade Runner plays in theaters in Hungary...
观众都看得哈哈大笑
...there's an enormous laugh.
马命根子！你说的
你就是……银翼杀手
他说你是银翼杀手
He say you Blade Runner.
只要他能明白我的意思
As long as he went along with my understanding...
明白正在发生的一切
...of what was going to be happening...
爱德华·詹姆斯·奥莫斯，加夫饰演者
也就是洛杉矶的文化效应
...which was the culturalization of Los Angeles...
通常大家并不会料到这种事情
...in a way that people wouldn't be expecting.
他打从一开始便很能接受这样的安排
And he went with it right from the start, from the get-go.
他马上就点头答应
And he said, "Sure, that sounds right."
很理所当然的样子
He's very matter-of-fact.
让我能够自由地探索我的世界
And that really allowed me to then explode in my own world.
他从未质疑过
He never questioned it.
当然，还有在拍片的那个时候
Of course, I guess the powers that be at that moment...
没有人知道我到底在讲什么
...questioned the fact that nobody knew what I was saying.
我一点也不在乎
And I could care less.
因为我知道我自己讲的每句话都对
You know, because I knew that what I was saying was correct.
对白正确无误
And it was... It was real dialogue.
如果他想放上字幕的话没关系
So if you wanted to put the subtitles, it was up to him.
基本上我认为那并不需要
I basically didn't think you needed those.
他有时感觉很像西班牙人
He would be very, very Hispanic.
穿着打扮像个阔绰的毒枭
Could almost be dressed as if he was a well-to-do drug dealer.
但他事实经营着见不得人的低级工作
And, in fact, was the manager of all the dirty work for the department.
加夫这名字挺好的
The word Gaff is a good name, actually.
他很费心思打理自己的外表
He groomed himself obsessively, actually.
还很有效率
And efficiently.
他会变换眼神
He changed his eyes...
但最了不起的是他一口奇怪的语言
...but the most elaborate was this curious gutter speak...
是他一手导演或说是他自行创造出的
...which he helped put together or maybe even invented mostly.
他投下许多心思与功夫诠释这个小角色
It's a huge amount of work by him put into not a very big part...
效果出奇理想
...but very effective.
现在回顾当年，那是一个了不起的卡司阵容
Today, as we look back on it, it was an extraordinary cast.
我熟悉这群人，雷德利会和这些人见
Then, it was a cast who I knew, and who Ridley was meeting...
雷德利引导他们演出这部片子
...and who Ridley would guide through the film.
他激发出他们最完美的演出
He brought out the best qualities in his performers.
拍摄过程或许不那么尽人意
It may not have always been the most pleasant process...
但是他却也诱劝他们
...but on the other hand, he coaxed...
诱哄这些人拿出最理想的表现
...and very gently manipulated performances from these people...
我认为那很难被后人迎头赶上
...that in some instances I think they've rarely topped.
布莱恩·詹姆斯，莱昂·科瓦尔斯基饰演者
设计未来
经典的开始
I saw a very large canvas.
我看到很大的帆布
劳伦斯·G·波尔，美术设计
I saw a very eclectic canvas where basically we were gonna make our own rules.
我看到一块很特别的大帆布，基本上我们自订规则
Art direction, set design, I think generally was one massive challenge.
美术指导、场景设计，我想那都是一大挑战
But evolution told us it had to be this much money.
但进化告诉我们，它的规模就是得这么大
雷德利·斯科特，导演
We had to make it on a backlot.
我们得在露天片场拍摄
Michael had a saying that when Ridley takes out the pencil it's hundreds of dollars
迈克尔常说当雷德利拿出铅笔时，那就要花几百块
and when he takes out a pen, it's thousands of dollars.
当他拿出钢笔时，那就得花几千块
大卫·L·斯奈德，美术指导
Ridley was over here, hunting around for people to work on this film that he'd agreed to do.
雷德利在这里找人，拍摄他答应接下的这部电影
I went over and had a meeting with Michael Deeley, Ridley Scott
我过来跟迈克尔·迪利和雷德利·斯科特开会
I think, Ivor Powell and John Rogers.
还有艾弗·鲍威尔及约翰·罗杰斯
And got the script handed to me called Dangerous Days.
把剧本拿给我，它叫做 危险的日子
席德·米德，未来视觉艺术家
Isn't it fortunate it wasn't used?
没有用过它，我们很幸运吧？
And took it home and started to do sketches.
我将它拿回家开始画素描
And started to submit work to Ridley
开始跟雷德利埋首于工作
and then Lawrence Paull was hired.
那时我们雇用了劳伦斯·波尔
I was the first hire on the staff.
我是第一个受雇的人
A futurist, Syd Mead, was one of the great illustrators of industrial objects.
未来艺术家席德·米德，是最会画工业物品的插画家之一
Cars, electric irons apartments, skyscrapers, cityscapes.
车子、电熨斗、公寓、摩天大楼跟市容
Urban development.
都市发展
And I'd looked at this.
我看着他的画
Started looking at them as if they were fantasy.
我开始看着它们把它们当成是幻想
Now, Syd was actually a great preview on where we've gone now in Tokyo
席德非常清楚的预视东京现在会如何
in-- I've just been to Shanghai. In Shanghai, certainly.
事实上他去过上海
The way the urban development is going.
都市发展蓬勃兴盛
Syd absolutely had it nailed.
席德都抓到了精髓
And I didn't know that at the time.
当时我并不知道
I just felt he did.
我只觉得他办到了
And I brought him in for a meeting and said:
我请他来开会并且说
"Look, we gotta do it this way.
“听着，我们得这么做
I'm gonna be on the backlot we're gonna do the best we can.
我要到露天片场，我们得尽力而为
We have a limited budget.
我们的预算有限
I can't make things..." Like Stanley took--
我无法做出斯坦利那样的东西”
At the time, I think, 2001 for the time was expensive.
2001：太空漫游 的成本一定很贵
But he'd actually made everything including the centrifuge wheel
但他什么都做了包括离心转轮
and it all worked and I would never have the budget to do that.
他们成功了我没有预算那么做
That's why the idea of retrofitting things came about.
所以我们想出翻新的点子
It would have to be retroed to the surface of the backlot which had traditional buildings.
我们得翻新露天片场表面，本来它是传统建筑
Upon which we would put pipes and ducts.
我们得加上管线
And air conditioning.
跟空调
And one famous architect years later stopped me and brought me to his offices
数年后一位知名建筑师拦下我，邀请我去他的办公室
his rather superb offices in London and said to me:
他在伦敦的高级办公室里，跟我说
"We run Blade Runner about once a month."
“我们每个月播一次 银翼杀手 ”
Because he said, "When I saw Blade Runner
因为他说：“我看 银翼杀手 时
the evolution of the beauty in technology suddenly became very apparent."
美丽和科技的进化突然间变得很明显”
Which is where the building and where the guts on the outside
也就是建筑跟外面的装置
and the guts become part of the decoration.
装置成了装饰的一部分
So that's the way we'd gone with Blade Runner, so it was by necessity we actually kind of started to design it that way.
我们那样子设计 银翼杀手，所以我们一定要用那种方式开始设计
Syd Mead, although his visual influence on Blade Runner was indeed great
虽然说席德·米德对 银翼杀手 在视觉上的影响相当大
保罗·M·萨蒙， Future Noir: The Making of Blader Runner 作者
was only part of a larger entity called the Art Department.
但那只是阵容庞大的美术部门的一部分
Every film has an Art Department.
每部电影都有美术部门
And this is where the designs and the blueprints
在这里有设计跟蓝图
and the whole overall visual concept of the films is nailed before filming starts.
电影的全面视觉概念在开拍前便做了定调
The one in charge of the Art Department is called a production designer.
美术部门负责人叫做美术设计
On Blade Runner, that was a guy named Lawrence Paull.
在 银翼杀手 中，有个人叫做劳伦斯·波尔
And Larry had a lot to do with hiring the other people in the Art Department
赖瑞负责雇用美术部门的其他人
and coordinating all of the varying looks and synthesizing them to Ridley's specification.
协调不同的外观，让它们符合雷德利的要求
The big advantage we had was the famous actors' strike.
我们最大的优势，就是大牌演员罢工
That lasted for months.
那维持了几个月
And the fact that-- Because I don't think we ever would have been able
事实上我想我们本来没办法
to finesse the designs that we were developing in the Art Department.
在美术部门完成我们研发出来的计划
Finesse the technical aspect of it had there not been an actors' strike.
完成技术层面的东西，要不是有演员大罢工就完成不了
We needed the time, so consequently we were in preproduction for nine months, or nine and a half months
我们需要时间，所以我们的前制时间长达九个月还是九个半月
which is as long as I've ever been on preproduction on a film.
我做其他电影的前制工作从未这么久过
We went over to Sunset Gower and he brought me into Ridley's office.
我们到了日落高尔片场，他带我到雷德利的办公室
He said, "l want you to meet-- This is David Snyder. He's the-- He's gonna be the Art Director."
他说：“我要你见见……这位是大卫·斯奈德，他会是美术指导”
Ridley took his Macanudo out of his mouth and stood up and shook hands and he said
雷德利拿出他嘴里的雪茄，站起来握手，他说
"Too bad for you, mate."
“你太倒霉了”
This is a rather different Art Department situation.
这里的美术部门完全不同
Ridley's in charge of the Art Department on this picture.
雷德利负责本片的美术部门
And I imagine on most pictures, but this one specifically.
事实上他大多会那么做，但他特别注重这部电影
It's not quite fair to sound as though one's diminishing the Art Department or the art director
如果要说有人削减了美术部门或美术指导的权力，不太公平
迈克尔·迪利，制片人
but one is in an inevitable way
但从某方面来讲也不可避免
because Ridley's so on top of it and he's micromanaging the Art Department.
因为雷德利是个中翘楚，他微观管理美术部门
Which is pretty hard for art directors to take but okay when the credit comes up.
美术指导很难接受，但做出成绩后大家也无话可说
It was them.
就是他们
Those guys had to work awfully hard to do what Ridley wanted
这些人得努力工作完成雷德利的命令
and they had to be very efficient to do what Ridley wanted.
他们得非常有效率地完成雷德利交代的任务
But it was Ridley who decided what it would be.
但由雷德利做最后的决定
I knew that he had been an art director and I knew that
我知道他当过美术指导，我很清楚
that was probably a good thing, you know, that he understood
这或许是件好事，他很解状况
and it would mean that unlike some pictures
不像有些电影
where a lot of money and focus is placed on the script and the performances
将许多资金跟焦点放在剧本跟表演上
which is a good thing that a fair amount of emphasis would be placed on the look of the film.
那是件好事，但也得将一定比例的注意力放在电影的视觉上
We were evolving what the future would be with Larry Paull, my chosen production designer.
我们跟赖瑞·波尔构思未来的样子，他是我选择的美术设计
I hadn't worked with him before
我没有跟他合作过
I think he thought I was absolutely crazy but because I could draw, it helped a lot.
我想他以为我一定是疯了，但是因为我会画画，那真的有帮助
The three illustrators that were working with Larry Paull
跟赖瑞·波尔合作的三位插画家
汤姆·索斯韦尔，美术插画家
are Mentor Huebner, Sherman Labby and myself.
是曼陀·许布纳 、舍曼·拉比跟我
Ridley looked at absolutely everything that I drew, everything that I was proposing.
雷德利会看我画的画，思考我的提议
And would say yes or no to it.
他会做出决定
We'd be in meetings and he would be wanting me to have more and more variety.
开会时他希望我能多做改变
Take more chances.
大胆一些
Be more like Heavy Metal
多一点 重金属 味道
which is those Moebius strips
也就是那些莫比斯条纹
where they're in a futuristic city and everything looks different.
它们在未来的城市里出现，一切看起来都不一样
And it's a hodgepodge of everything.
它是什么东西都有
What Sherman was doing was the storyboards working very closely with Ridley Scott.
舍曼负责分镜表，跟雷德利·斯科特密切合作
Ridley would hand little tiny drawings we'd call Ridleygrams to Sherman
雷德利会将小图画，我们称为雷德利画，交给薛曼
雷德利·斯科特的艺术作品
and Sherman would then do fairly large renderings in tone and light.
舍曼会将它们放大十倍，加上色调跟光线
舍曼·拉比的艺术作品
And they were gorgeous.
它们真的很漂亮
Mentor was doing the production illustrations of the sets that Larry was building.
曼陀负责赖瑞搭建的场景的美术插画
曼陀·许布纳的艺术作品
Mentor Huebner, grand old gentleman of real classic movies
曼陀·许布纳是位老绅士，跟经典电影中一样
did his lock-off drawings in, I think, Conté pencil.
他的画非常精细，应该是蜡笔画
They're gorgeous, gorgeous drawings.
非常漂亮的画
I was hired to work one-to-one with the director, Ridley.
我受雇跟导演雷德利一对一的合作
席德·米德的艺术作品
After all, he's God.
毕竟他就是神
A director is God on a film.
导演是电影里的神
So I worked essentially for his approval through this staff-structure overlay who would then
基本上我必须取得他的许可，透过层层的通报
you know, make the thing look like Ridley had approved.
他会让事情看起来，像是雷德利已经答应了
So it was kind of an elitist approach to being involved in the film.
那是参与电影拍摄最好的方法
But I got along very well with all the staff people.
但我跟工作人员相处得很好
One of the troubles we got into with Syd Mead was he became so important to the film
我们跟席德·米德合作的问题之一是，他在片中变得很重要
that he'd only been originally hired for a few days
一开始他只被雇用了几天
at 1500 bucks a day or something
日薪应该是 1,500 块
suddenly he was on the thing for weeks.
突然间他得留下来几星期
And it was one factor of going over budget.
那会超过预算
In retrospect, I guess I seduced the process of being hired in the first place only to do the vehicles.
回顾以往，我想是我自己想要一开始只受雇于画车辆
And because I could render, I'd been rendering for 20 years at the time I started in the movie business
因为那个时候，我在电影圈待了二十年
so I knew how to reproduce the mood lighting, the fixtures, what you saw
所以我知道如何制造出气氛、灯光、质感，你看到的一切
and I had never done an isolated object on a white sheet of paper
我仅有在白纸上单独画过一样东西
because that's not the way things exist in the real world.
因为在真实生活中不是那样的
They have surroundings, you know, in situ.
它们会被很多东西包围
So once I designed Sebastian's truck have it sitting on the street it's not being used
有一次我设计了塞巴斯蒂安的卡车，让它停在街上
behind it is a building with sort of this patched-over screened windows
后面是有许多纱窗的建筑
with a cold cathode light inside off in the distance is sort of a misty
里面有冷冷的阴极光就在远方，看起来有点雾雾的
indistinct alignment of architecture and it has a very, very, dreary effect.
不起眼的建筑设计，它看起来很阴沉
And that's what I pursued all the way through.
我一直在追求那种感觉
Showing these vehicles in place.
让车子出现在适当的地方
Syd designed this whole world
席德设计了这整个世界
but he designed not just what would be the matte paintings
但他不只设计了外观模样
but conceived of what the streets would look like and what the neon would look like.
还构思出街景的样子跟霓虹灯的样子
道格拉斯·川柏，特效摄影总监
And what it would look like when it was all drenched in grisly oil-soaked rain.
还有笼罩在沾了可怕油脂的雨水里的样子
And then designed the vehicles as well.
他还设计了车辆
So the whole thing kind of knit together.
整个设计一气呵成
Syd wasn't really the production designer per se, but he was the stylist.
席德不是真的美术设计，他是造型师
I think it was a really smart decision to get someone who didn't have just an idea about the future
我想雇用一个不只是对未来有概念的人是个很棒的决定
but he was actually someone who was an industrial designer and illustrator
他还是工业设计师跟插画师
who was designing products for the future for people who were going to manufacture them.
为未来、为人设计东西，一些以后会生产的东西
Syd had gone into great wonderful details about:
席德非常讲究细节
"Will there be parking meters?"
“会有停车计费器吗？”当然咯
"There'll be much worse than parking meters."
“会有比停车计费器更讨厌的东西”
He developed a parking meter that would actually kill you.
他研发出一种停车计费器可能会把你电死
The post-mechanical case becomes electrified
这个柱状机器通了电
so that if you touch it or try to attack it you're electrocuted
你一摸它或攻击它就会被电到
which is a very brutal attack on your-- You as a human.
对人类来说那是残酷攻击
I said, "Oh, Syd, that's a bit much."
我说：“席德，那太过分了”
The first thing to do was to design the vehicles
首先得设计车子
because they take the longest-- The most elaborate prop to build.
因为它们最花时间，是最精细的道具
So Gene Winfield made a trip down to my house in Orange County and drove down
金尼·温菲德跑到我在橘郡的家
we went over the designs Ridley had approved them.
我们看了设计，雷德利得批准它们
The spinner, the taxi, Sebastian's truck, that vehicle.
未来车、出租车、塞巴斯蒂安的卡车，跟那辆车
And some other vehicles which were... They were really never built because of budget problems.
有些车子是因为预算的关系没做出来
They had me bid on 54 cars
他们要我做 54 辆车
and I knew that they would never be able to afford all of these cars
我知道他们不可能负担得起建造所有的车子
金尼·温菲德，车辆建造师
and I knew it would be reduced, so it got reduced to 27 cars.
我知道得删减，最后减至 27 辆
I had three shops going, I had as high as 50 people working on this project altogether.
我得去三家工厂，最多时雇用了 50 个人一起进行这个计划
I had, I think it was, 18 people just in fiberglass.
光是玻璃纤维就动用了 18 个人
Working in fiberglass.
只是在做玻璃纤维
And we worked 18 hours a day, seven days a week.
我们每天工作 18 小时，一星期工作 7 天
For five and a half months to produce these vehicles.
花了五个半月来制作这些车子
Because they were very involved and, you know, by the shape of them and everything
因为它们的外型很复杂
that Syd did a wonderful job designing
席德的设计非常棒
but they were a little bit hard to build.
但要建造它们真的很难
They took his renderings and scaled them.
他们拿了他的画开始研究
They had seven people working in the Art Department scaling those blueprints
在美术部门，有 7 个工作人员计算那些蓝图的比例
so that I could build the cars
以此我可以建造车子
and then they could build scale models of some of them to fly in the movie.
然后他们可以做一些模型，在片中有些车子模型会飞起来
Once we got started on the vehicles then they came over to my shop
我们开始做车子后，他们跑到我的工厂
Ridley Scott and all the different people in the Art Department kept coming over all the time
雷德利·斯科特跟美术部门其他的人他们常常跑过来
and they were shooting pictures and then I was shooting pictures as we went.
他们会拍照，我也是边做边拍
And I was mocking up the sedan, I was using some metal, some wood, some fiberglass.
我做轿车时用了一些金属、木材跟玻璃纤维
And then I had a shop down the street doing the taxis there was a carpenter shop
我在街底有家工厂在做出租车，还有一间木工工厂
and so we built the taxis basically out of wood.
我们做出租车基本材料是木材
And they were built on a VW van chassis.
它们都用福斯面包车底盘做成
And then I used VW chassis for most of the smaller cars.
我用福斯的底盘做出大部分的小车
I shortened the coupe chassis and then l lengthened the ones for the sedan.
我缩短双门小车的底盘做小车，加长就是做轿车
Like Harrison Ford's sedan, and the police sedan
譬如哈里逊福特的车子跟警车
those were all made on VW chassis which I lengthened 12 inches.
它们都用福斯底盘做成，我加长了 30 公分
One of the spinners was a complete mockup of which we put on a table.
有辆未来车是模型，我们把它放在桌子上
Some of the dialogue was filmed in this unit
一些对白戏在这个单元里拍摄
and this unit had all kinds of things working, you know
这个单元什么都有
the doors came up and all kinds of things moved and whatnot.
门一打开，东西到处飞
And then it had all the complete interior.
它有完整的内装
All the gadgets and, you know, the monitors and all that stuff.
所有的配备跟银幕
Everything was working in that unit.
那个单位功能齐全
And that was, like I say, on a rolling table.
那就是我的意思，车子放在会滚动的桌上
And the actors would get in and sit there
演员会上车坐好
and they'd film different sides
他们会从不同角度拍摄
and do the dialogue and everything on that unit.
表演对白戏全都在那个单元里
And then the one spinner that they lifted to fly
然后一辆未来车，他们把它提高到天上飞行
that we didn't have an engine in that but it had everything working, all full hydraulics, you know.
我们并没有装上引擎，但它的功能齐全，有完整的液压功能
I went through and then designed some vehicles from one of Ridley's wonderful contour-line drawings.
看过雷德利非常棒的线条画之后，我设计了一些车辆
史帝芬·戴恩，助理美术指导
And presented it to him.
我拿给他看
And this was a huge toxic mobile waste dump that was big like a fortress.
这是非常大的有毒汽车废城场，那像个大堡垒
Stephen Dane would kluge pieces and bits and parts that he found
史帝芬会四处找可用的东西
from Arizona to New Mexico and brought all these aircraft parts and pieces here.
他从亚利桑纳州找到新墨西哥州，将飞机零件带回来
And had his own group out at the Burbank hangar manufacturing that.
他在柏班克机棚有自己的班底制造那个玩意
As a matter of fact, Ridley liked Stephen so much
事实上雷德利很喜欢史帝芬
that he wanted him at his side all the time with a sketch book
他老是将他拉到旁边，要他拿着素描簿
and Stephen could knock stuff out like crazy.
史帝芬会疯狂作画
He was the assistant art director but he was sort of like Ridley's pet guy.
他虽是助理美术指导，但他像是雷德利的宠儿
Many of the things in that movie, the umbrellas
片中很多道具，譬如说雨伞
all that were all built at little tiny garage shops.
都是在窄小的车库工作室做成的
Dream Quest, that did the readouts for the spinner dashboard
追梦小组负责未来车仪表板指数
they were in a garage too or someone's house, you know?
他们也是在车库或某人家里工作
Everybody in the Art Department was tickled to work on Ridley Scott's film following Alien.
美术部门的人都很高兴能参与雷德利·斯科特在 异形 后的作品
Alien is a gorgeous film, the best piece of art direction I think I've ever seen in my life.
异形 是部好片，是我看过的艺术指导的最佳典范
And we all thought, "Okay, we're doing this picture
我们都想：“我们要拍这部
about Replicants and the future and a flying car”
跟复制人、未来、飞天车有关的电影”
and I'd say, "Whoa, we're doing Alien II. We get to walk down that same road."
我会说：“我们是在拍 异形 续集，我们得用相同的办法”
Everybody got turned around at a certain point and said: "No, wait, we're not doing Alien II.
到了一个地步，大家会说：“不，等一下，我们不是在拍 异形 续集
We're doing something completely different.
我们在做完全不同的事
And it is the future but it's not that far in the future."
它是未来，但它是不远的未来”
The caveat, when I was gonna do the show was it was not gonna be a big movie.
问题是我答应加入时，它不是一部大片
American lnternational Pictures was making this movie.
美国国际电影公司制作这部电影
They wanted us to eventually go to Mexico and make the movie.
他们要我们到墨西哥拍戏
And I was told that the only set that I would be designing
他们告诉我我要设计的场景只有一场
because the rest would be all location would be the street.
因为其他的戏都是外景，都会在街头拍摄
Everything else was gonna be done live location.
其他的戏都是外景
And, you know, given what is going on in the film business and so forth and so on, you say, "Yes."
考虑到业界的情况及种种原因，你会说：“好”
By the time I got on the film
我加入的时候
there was a location manager on the film already that the production manager hired
已经有了外景经理，美术设计雇用了他
and there were two locations that Ridley liked in L.A.
在洛杉矶有两个外景地点雷德利很喜欢
One was the Bradbury Building
一个是布莱德柏利大楼
and the other was Union Station.
另一个是联合车站
The Bradbury Building turned out to be the hotel
布莱德柏利大楼成了饭店
where one of our key characters lived
一位主角住在那里
and Union Station turned out to be the police station.
联合车站是警局
Where we built the set in the corner of the station, and the set is still there in Union Station.
我们在角落盖了场景，它还保存到现在，就在联合车站里面
It's part of the offices now.
现在它是办公室的一部分
And we made a deal with them to cut back on the location fee
我们跟他们谈条件，希望他们降低场地租金
if they would you know, take the set, which they did.
之后把场景送给他们 他们答应了
I think, funny enough, it took somebody not to come from L.A to actually do it in L.A.
我想那很有趣，要一个不是来自洛杉矶的人在洛杉矶那么做
because I'm new, I haven't seen this before and I'm going, "Wow, that's good and that's good." Yeah?
因为我是新手，我没看过这个，我说：“那不错”对吧？
And the Bradbury's great and we put a little cheap canopy on.
布莱德柏利大楼非常棒，我们搭了便宜的天篷
I even brought the columns from the studio because they're only Styrofoam.
我还从摄影棚搬来柱子，它们是舒泰龙泡沫塑料做的
So I had a style of crunchy kind of comic-strip architecture.
所以变成有点漫画风的建筑
Which is nearly real.
它非常真实
Is real, you've gotta make it real.
你得把它做得很真实
The Bradbury Building, everyone in the TV series uses that and I had said:
布莱德柏利大楼，大家都在那里拍影集，我说
"Back off. I'm gonna use it. I'll shoot it in a way you haven't seen it before."
“让开，我要用它，我要用你没看过的方式拍它”
Being an architectural student I said:
身为建筑系学生的我说
"You know, it doesn't make any sense to me that you're walking along the corridor of the Bradbury Building
“我觉得这样没有道理，在布莱德柏利大楼的走廊上走着
and all of a sudden you walk in and there's these plaster walls."
突然间你走进去看到这些石膏墙”
And I said, "lt doesn't make any sense to me." I mean, that was exactly the point.
我说：“那没有道理”这就是重点
Why does it have to make sense
为什么它得有意义？
and isn't it so much more interesting that the architecture is different?
建筑物不一样不是更有趣吗？
And I think what he said to me was, "Don't rationalize with me."
他好像是跟我说：“别跟我找借口”
Michael Deeley said, "Okay, it's 3:00, Ridley's gonna come
迈克尔·迪利说：“好吧，三点了，雷德利要过来
I want the drawings on the wall. He's gonna look at the drawings."
我要在墙上挂画，他会看那些画”
So in those days, you had to go to the blueprint shop and make copies
那时你得到蓝图店制作副本
which was, like, interminable in time.
当时那么做非常累人
And everything smelled of ammonia because they just came out of the machine.
所有的东西闻起来都有氨水味，因为它们刚刚做好
So the whole room stank of ammonia with these drawings that had just been put up.
画一挂好，房间里弥漫浓浓的氨水味
Michael Deeley and Ridley were walking around
迈克尔·迪利和雷德利走来走去
and I was standing with Larry Paull like this, you know terrified
我像这样害怕地跟赖瑞·波尔站在一起
and walking around looking at the drawings and as if we had left the room
他走来走去看画，就我们好像根本不在那里一样
he looked at Michael and he said, "Well, you know it's never really all what you want, is it?"
他看着迈克尔说：“你知道的，人无法事事如愿 ，对吧？”
He said, "You never get what you want."
他说：“你永远无法得到你想要的”
Because there was so much to do and I think at the peak
因为要做的事太多，我想最忙的时候
we had 400 plus-minus carpenters, painters, plasterers
我们有大约四百位木匠、画家跟泥水匠师傅
I mean, there were so many people working on the show that it was just a job managing all that
很多人为这部电影工作，管理就是一门大学问
which was under the jurisdiction of the Construction Department
他们由建造部门管理
but someone needed to be the liaison between what was being built and what was being designed.
有人得联系建造部门跟设计部门
So my job got really busy
我的工作真的很忙
because as Larry was concentrating on the design
因为赖瑞专心做设计
and I was gonna sort of manage that for him.
我得帮他做管理
I've never seen anything like it.
我没看过那种事
I quite honestly never had seen a set built like that.
我真的没看过像那样的场景建造
巴德·约金，投资人
It was just an amazing amazing amount of construction that had to be done.
那真的很不可思议，非常多的工程必须完成
Jerry Perenchio and Bud Yorkin came to the Burbank hangar.
杰里·佩伦乔跟巴德·约金来柏班克机棚
We were manufacturing the cars and the furniture.
我们在做车子跟家具
And they walked in and saw this entire hangar filled with people
他们走进来看到机棚里面全都是人
and I'm telling you, I could see the blood drain out of Bud Yorkin's face.
我得说，我看到巴德约金的脸变得毫无血色
He had no idea what was going on.
他完全不知道发生了什么事
He couldn't believe it.
他不敢相信
"You're making chairs, you're making-- What are you making?
“你在做椅子跟……你在做什么？
Go buy a chair, buy a table. What are you making?"
去买桌椅吧，做什么做”
But it was all beautifully designed museum pieces that you can't buy.
但那是设计得很漂亮，是那种买不到的博物馆级家具
I'd always known what the idea of the street was gonna be.
我一直都知道街头看起来如何
That everything was gonna be claustrophobic that
一切看起来都很封闭
the columns of the buildings were gonna be out to the edge of the sidewalks.
建筑物的柱子撑到了人行道边上
And it was gonna be very heavy and very heavy-handed looking.
看起来非常沉重
But what-- But to see Syd's illustrations when he came back was like, "Oh, my God."
但他看完席德的插画回来时说：“天啊”
The street set which has the oblong, sort of hot-dog-shaped lights around the corner of the building
街道场景里有，建筑物角落的椭圆形的、像是热狗形状的灯光
that was right from the painting.
那是来自图画的
Right exactly from the painting.
跟图画一模一样
So all these things went together based on sketches from Ridley
这些都是根据雷德利的素描
directioned from him through Lawrence Paull to myself
由他透过劳伦斯·波尔告诉我
accompanying Lawrence Paull to the Warner Bros. backlot.
我陪劳伦斯·波尔到华纳兄弟的露天片场
Some of those streets had been used in Westerns, I mean, for decades.
有些街道几十年来都被拿来拍西部片
They were very, very, visually familiar.
它们看起来非常眼熟
I walked on that backlot, it's what it looks like now.
我走到露天片场，它看起来就跟现在一样
When you walk on there, that's what it looked like.
走到那里去，它就是那样
And it's got-- As all backlots it can only be limited.
它跟所有露天片场一样，你只能区隔它的空间
So it's limited to, I think, two, maybe three stories.
我想它只能被隔成两三层楼
Mostly two. So it's not tall enough.
主要是两层，所以不够高
So in those days because I haven't got digital CGI or anything like that
我以前因为没有数字计算机绘图系统那样的东西
the decision to do it at night makes a lot of sense.
所以我们决定在晚上动工
Because I was a designer, I'm up there often and all over Larry, God bless him.
因为我是设计师，我常到那里去，跟赖瑞一起去，愿上帝祝福他
A very good way of telling you how Ridley was in control of the Art Department is that
要够告诉你雷德利如何将美术部门管理得很好
when the first walk-through which we did of the finished set when it happened
就是我们第一次在完成的场景做彩排时
Ridley we're trying to look at everything else, said:
雷德利……我们想看看所有的东西，他就说
"Very good. Very good start, now let's get on with it."
“非常好的开始，我们开工吧”
And I did a walk-through, backwards, on the set, street set for one of the publicity-release clips.
我走了一圈，再回来，看了场景跟街景，准备做公关稿
And for me it was spooky because I was walking through one of my miniature renderings.
我觉得那很可怕，因为我走过我的迷你模型时
It was very close to the little painting I'd done for Ridley.
它非常接近我帮雷德利做的那些小画作
He had Lawrence Paull and the staff essentially come as close as possible to duplicating that design.
他要劳伦斯·波尔跟工作人员尽可能复制那个设计
And it was very fascinating and very complimentary of course also.
真的非常棒，当然也是非常大的恭维
That I'd come that close to what he had in his mind as how it should look.
因为我能在外观上非常符合他的要求
Larry Paull came into my office and said:
赖瑞·波尔跑到我的办公室说
"l want you to come up with two designs for a neon sign
“我要你设计两款霓虹灯招牌
two neon-sign designs a day for the next 20 days."
连续 20 天，每天交出两款霓虹灯设计”
And I mean, it was $100,000 worth of neon that I was gonna draw.
我心想我要画的可是价值十万块的霓虹灯
And then they were gonna inherit neon from One from the Heart
他们要利用 旧爱新欢 的霓虹灯
and they made a purchase or something that we were gonna use it for the film in a new way.
他们买了下来，我们得用新的方式来利用它
We weren't gonna make it look like it did in their film.
我们不会直接拿来就用
I saw a poster that had this katakana or kanji letter form on it and I said
我看到一张海报，上面有片假名还是汉字之类的，我说
"What does that say?"
“那是什么意思？”
And she said, "Well, that says 'origin.' "
她说：“那是根源的意思”
And so I turned that form of "origin" into the neon sign that's behind Deckard
我将根源的字变成霓虹灯图案，就在德卡身后
when he's looking at the newspaper waiting to get served at the noodle bar.
当时，他在看报纸，在面摊等着吃面
And the way I perceived it was that I could make it look like a map of the world
我认为我可以把它做成世界地图的样子
because these look like land forms more than they look like letter forms to me
因为我觉得它们像陆地的形状，不像字母
because I don't speak Japanese.
因为我不懂日文
And I chose, you know, orange or pink and blue neon and you see this glow
我选了橘色或粉红色还有蓝色霓虹灯，你可以看到光芒
and origin is really the question of Blade Runner.
根源就是 银翼杀手 探讨的问题
It's kind of a hidden little secret that, you know
它像是隐藏的小秘密
what is our origin? Where do we come from? Who are we?
我们的根源是什么？我们来自哪里？我们是谁？
The thing that was very smart about Ridley Scott was
雷德利·斯科特的聪明之处在于
most English-speaking people aren't gonna know what it says but in those characters
多数英语人口不知道那些字代表的意义
it becomes visually very, very important.
在视觉上它变得很重要
If you could read it, your eye would go to it
如果你了解它的意思，你会开始注意它
and you'd be distracted you would be looking at it and reading it
你就会分了心，你会开始阅读它
and he doesn't want you reading it he just wants you to be dazzled by how beautiful it is.
他不要你阅读，他要你被它的美丽所迷惑
Deckard's apartment, which was great, I think was great Frank Lloyd Wright set.
德卡的公寓真的很棒，我觉得它是很棒的弗兰克·劳埃德·赖特的场景
弗兰克·劳埃德·赖特，美国的最伟大的建筑师之一
We went in the Frank Lloyd Wright house
我们到了弗兰克·劳埃德·赖特屋里
realized we couldn't shoot because I was in there a long time.
了解我们无法拍摄，因为我在那里待了很久
So Larry and I, we took castings off the walls of the Ennis House.
所以赖瑞跟我复制恩尼斯住宅
恩尼斯住宅，弗兰克·劳埃德·赖特打造的著名建筑
We had also gone to the Frank Lloyd Wright Ennis-Brown House.
我们还跑到弗兰克·劳埃德·赖特的恩尼斯布朗住宅
But when we had gotten to Lloyd Wright's house and I had photographed it
但当我们到劳埃德·赖特的屋子时，我拍了照
I realized the way the concrete blocks were designed
我发现水泥砖的设计
and broken out in coffers and it literally felt like a cave enclosure.
还有花格镶板设计，让它感觉像个洞穴
That was the whole tip-off for the whole set
那是整个场景的重点
for me, designwise, was to make it feel totally claustrophobic.
对我来说在设计方面它真的非常封闭
I designed the interior of Deckard's bedroom.
我设计了德卡卧室的内部
Which was supposed to be the ultimate, you know moveable bachelor pad fun pit kind of thing.
它应该是最终极的……活动式单身汉公寓
That was never built.
但我们一直没建造
Some of the things that he did didn't work and we let him know.
他做的一些事根本不管用，我们跟他说了
It was more Playboy-ish.
它比较像是 花花公子
It belonged in a Playboy magazine conceptual apartment kind of thing
它属于 花花公子 杂志概念式的公寓
as opposed to Blade Runner.
跟 银翼杀手 的感觉不同
I would have discussions with the director.
我会跟导演讨论
And then I would have to go back and revise
然后回去重新设计
not just designs, but revise what they' re gonna cost me
不只是重新设计，还要更改预算
because things got bigger, better, best.
因为规模越来越大，品质越来越好
So consequently, Deckard's one-bedroom apartment
所以德卡的单人公寓
which was supposed to run 45 or 50 thousand dollars at that time
在当时的预算是四万五到五万块
ran at that time $175,000.
结果飙高到 17 万 5 千块
But I'd never budgeted an apartment that could cost $175,000.
我没有做过成本 17 万 5 千块的公寓
There was never that need.
从来都不需要那么做
But when I got done with my meetings with Ridley the need was there.
但跟雷德利开过会后，我们认为有必要
We're several weeks into the shoot, and I was around and I was writing pages
我们再过几星期就要开拍，我坐下来开始写剧本
and I would rush them over to the set and sometimes Ridley had already had a new idea
我要他们到现场去，有时候雷德利会想出新点子
so my pages were totally outdated before he ever read them.
所以有时候他还没看，我的剧本就过时了
大卫·皮普尔斯，编剧
And so that's the kind of thing that can make you crazy.
那样的事把我逼疯了
I brought some pages over to Ridley, right?
我拿剧本给雷德利看
And in the course of while I was there they struck for the day.
他们罢工的那天我也在场
And the lights went off and there's just this apartment.
灯熄了，我看到那间公寓
And I went and I sat down in a chair.
我跑过去坐在椅子上
And I swear to God, I was in a place that people lived.
我发誓我来到了一个真切的有人住过的地方
I mean, that place was so alive and so real
那里是那么地有生气跟真实
it felt nothing like any set I'd ever been on
感觉上完全不像我看过的其他场景
and I visited a set of Ridley's some years later
几年后我到雷德利的拍摄场景探班
when he was doing Someone to Watch Over Me.
当时他在拍 情人保镖
I walked into the house they'd built on the set
我走进他们在摄影棚里搭的屋子
and again, little pieces of spaghetti, mold on the wall it was unbelievably real.
墙上一小块意大利面污渍，感觉超真实
I mean, it was true. It was true to life.
那是真的，如此逼真
And that set felt like people lived there.
感觉上像是有人住在那里
I went out a couple of nights
我出去了几个晚上
and we certainly went out when they weren't shooting and saw sets and everything.
他们不拍戏时我们会跑出去看场景
杰里·佩伦乔，投资人
And right on down the line from the scenery the costumes and the entire thing
一路从场景看到服装及所有东西
I think you know, it speaks for itself.
我知道它就是最好证明
The people at the studio would walk by or walk through the set as it was being built.
片厂的人动工时在场景里走来走去
And they'd walk through the set and they'd all walk away shaking their heads saying
他们会在场景里走动，他们会走开摇头说
"What are these people doing?"
“这些人在做什么？”
I never chuck away the set or the proscenium or the landscape.
我从不扔掉场景或前舞台或景观
The set is the landscape.
场景就是景观
And to me in all my work the landscape and proscenium is a character.
对我来说，景观跟前舞台是故事里的一员
Sometimes to the irritation of some actors and always to the irritation of critics
有时候会让演员生气而且老是惹毛影评人
who'd tear me apart for many movies before I realized:
他们对我很多的电影咬牙切齿，之后我想通了
"You know what? I have a real advantage."
“你知道吗？优势在我”
I can actually conceive a world, a universe and carry it out so it's real.
我可以创造出一个世界，一个宇宙，把它做得非常真实
片场纪实
暴风眼
I always remember the first day was not good
我一直记得第一天不太好
because I got in there and the columns were upside down.
因为我进去里面而柱子是颠倒的
All the columns.
所有的柱子
雷德利·斯科特，导演
And I'd seen it-- I'd even drawn it for them.
我看过……我甚至画过了
Saying, "Like this."
我说：“像这样”
And I'd put the weight at the top.
我把重量放在顶部
He basically said, "Well, the only thing I'd like to do is turn the columns upside down."
基本上他说：“嗯，我唯一想做的事就是把柱子颠倒”
And I looked at him incredulously.
而我怀疑地看着他
劳伦斯·G·波尔，美术设计
Like, "What do you mean, turn them upside down?"
像是：“你说颠倒是什么意思？”
And he said, "Just that. Put that down here."
他说：“就是那样，把那个放下来这里”
I said, "Okay."
我说：“好吧”
The columns are not supporting the ceiling but they're just big bastards.
柱子并没有支撑天花板，它们只是大家伙
I said, "Look, without damaging the floor
我说：“注意，在不破坏地板的情况下
how long to cover the floor without scratching it, turn each column over?"
要覆盖地板而不刮伤，要花多久把每根柱子转过来？
He says, "You won't be shooting until 12:00."
他说：“你不到 12 点无法开拍”
I went to the first AD, told them-- This is at 7 in the morning.
我去找第一副导 ，告诉他们。现在是早上 7 点
"Come back at 2:00, and we'll be ready to shoot. The director wants a change."
“2 点回来，我们就会准备好拍了，导演想要一个改变”
Sure made hell for the construction crew.
确实让搭景人很不好过
盖里·格里菲斯，首席场务
You know, because they had to come in here, and this is all block-and-fall stuff turn them around...like that.
因为他们一走进去，东西全部重弄，把它们转过来像这样
And then the floor, God, the amount of time they spent polishing this floor and just wax--
然后是地板，天啊，很花时间……他们擦亮地板还有上蜡
And they could not get the really high gloss.
他们没办法弄得更光亮了
And they pull it out-- And so each square was, like, two-by-two
他们拉出来，好让每一块，就像，两米见方
and they were polishing those things.
他们在擦亮那些东西
At 2:00 in the afternoon, when everybody came back from lunch Ridley was a happy camper
下午 2 点 ，大家吃完午饭回来，雷德利非常高兴
the columns were upside down everything else was in place, and they shot.
柱子都颠倒了，其他一切都就定位，然后他们拍摄
It was worth turning the columns over
把柱子颠倒是很值得的
because otherwise that stuff would've been at the top of the shot.
因为不这样的话，那东西就不会在镜头上
Those eyes are one of a kind.
他的眼睛很厉害
It's like Rutger's character.
这就像鲁特格尔的角色
It's like, "lf you could see what I could see with my eyes." You know?
就好像：“如果你看得到我用双眼看到的东西一样”
That's Ridley Scott.
那就是雷德利·斯科特
And Ridley was very demanding.
而且雷德利要求非常高
肖恩·杨，瑞秋饰演者
I mean, from the point of view of the lighting and the acting, and the design.
我是说，从灯光、演技和设计的观点来看
I remember him saying, "Put more stuff on her lips.
我记得他说：“放更多东西在她唇上
Put more stuff on her lips, keep putting that stuff on her.
放更多东西在她唇上，一直放那东西在她唇上
No, no, no. More."
不，不，不，再多一点
I'd heard later that Ridley wanted me to stay in my little cubicle dressing room
我后来听说雷德利要我留在我的小化妆室里
because he didn't want me to have too much interaction with everyone.
因为他不要我和每个人有太多互动
So, I mean, that could've been part of the manipulation.
所以我是说那可能是操纵的一部分
Ridley, who also came from a lot of commercial background
雷德利也有很多商业背景
was constantly trying to add a kind of scintillating visual stimulation to scenes.
他一直试着在镜头里添加某种闪烁的视觉刺激
道格拉斯·川柏，特效摄影总监
A good example would be in Tyrell's office.
泰瑞的办公室就是一个好例子
We're sitting there in this big set.
我们在这个大场景里
We're struggling with our part which is the front projection out the windows
我们努力做我们的部分，也就是从窗子出来的正面投影
the live-action guys are struggling with the weird lighting stuff and Ridley's saying
工作人员很难调出这个怪异的光，而雷德利说
"Well, I want this light to be like up against the wall."
“嗯，我要这个光就像照在墙壁上”
And we're saying, "Well, what's motivating that? Is it raining? Is the floor wet?"
我们说：“是什么引发的呢？是下雨呢？还是地板湿了？”
And he said, "No, it's just gotta-- You know, it's just gotta happen."
他说：“不，你就是要……你懂的，就这样搞就玩事了”
And so I go, "lf that's what Ridley wants, that's what he should have."
所以我说：“如果那是雷德利想要的，那他就应该得到”
I mean, you look at the movie, you do have to ask:
我是说，你看着电影，你确实得问
"Well, what's that all about?
“嗯 ，那是怎么一回事？
Is that something coming in the window? From some atmospheric thing going on outside?"
有东西跑进窗户里吗？外面产生了某种大气物质吗？”
You don't need to explain it.
你不需要解释
But Ridley had this-- Has always had this incredible sensitivity
但是雷德利就是这样，总是有这种惊人的感受性
to all kinds of ways to create visual stimulation.
用各种方式创造出视觉刺激
After the first day of shooting, Doc Erickson came to me and said: "We're now five days behind."
第一天的拍摄后，埃里克森来找我说：“我们现在落后五天”
This is not what I wanted to hear but, I mean
这不是我想听到的，但是，我是说
Ridley was dealing with the smoke and the mirrors
雷德利在处理烟雾和镜子
and this and that and the columns, and so on and so forth.
这个和那个，还有柱子和诸如此类的事
小艾伦·拉德，拉德公司总裁
In the meantime, Harrison's just sitting there waiting to act and getting pissed off
同时，哈里森就坐在那等着演出，变得很生气
because he's not being called to the set to act in the scene.
因为他还没被叫去现场开始拍戏
The reason I was thrilled about having Ridley is he's got the very best eye in the business.
我很高兴有雷德利在的理由，是因为他有很棒的商业眼光
And that comes with a price.
而那是有代价的
Which is the time and the effort that he has to put into it.
他必须花很多时间，非常努力
迈克尔·迪利，制片人
So he'd often be sitting up in the sky on the crane doing the last book-on-the-table position
所以他常常坐吊车盘也空中做最后的脚本确认
when Harrison was sort of seething and not being told what to do.
让哈里森很焦急，又不告诉他要做什么
Ridley didn't think it was necessary to tell him what to do.
雷德利不认为有必要告诉他要做什么
Harrison always up to this point, had been dealing with directors
哈里森一直以来都是这样和某些导演打交道
保罗·M·萨蒙， Future Noir: The Making of Blader Runner 作者
for instance, like
举例来说，像
Francis Ford Coppola, working with Steven Spielberg and working with George Lucas
弗朗西斯·科波拉、史蒂文·斯皮尔伯格、还有和乔治·卢卡斯的合作
there was a commonality among all three of them
有一个共通性存在于这三者之中
which was all three of them very much pulled Harrison into the creative process of building that character.
也就是这三人把哈里森拉进筑构那个角色的创意过程
Ridley felt Harrison was perfectly capable of doing everything he had to do knew how to do it
雷德利觉得哈里森绝对有能力做一切他必须做的事，知道怎么做
and Ridley, meanwhile, was composing the picture.
同时雷德利在构筑影片
There's a part of you that wants to be totally in sync with the director's ambition.
你有一部分想完全和导演的雄心同步
And then there's a perverse part of you that says, "You know what? It doesn't really matter.
然而你堕落的部分说：“你知道吗？这其实不重要
哈里森·福特，德卡饰演者
What matters is being there.
重要的是人在那里
And participating truthfully in whatever the relationships in the scenes are.
并且深信不疑地参与场景里的关系
And fuck it, it's just a movie. Let him worry about it."
还有，这只是一部电影，让他去担心吧”
Maybe Ridley was giving me more attention than he was giving Harrison
也许雷德利给我的注意力比给哈里森还多
because he was making the assumption that he didn't need that.
因为他假定他不需要
Harry was never happy on that show.
哈里在那部电影中一直不开心
He never was. Not really.
从来都没开心过。一点也不
The only time he was happy was if it was gonna be close to wrap, you know? Then he was happy.
他唯一开心的时候就是接近杀青时，那个时候他才开心
In the case of the first property master, who departed
至于第一个离开的道具管理员
it was over the mug and the desk in the Holden interview.
是因为霍尔登采访时的马克杯和桌子
The prop guy, you know, brought in, like, two or three pens and maybe three or four mugs
道具管理员，带进来大概二或三枝笔和三或四个大杯子
大卫·L·斯奈德，美术指导
and Ridley wanted to see more.
雷德利想看到更多
And he couldn't figure out, "Why would you want to see more?
他不懂：“为什么你想看更多？
It's, like, only a mug and it's only a pen."
这只是个杯子和一枝笔”
I took the prop guy aside, I said, "Go buy, like, a hundred mugs go buy, like, a hundred pens.
我把道具管理带到一边，我说：“去买他一百个马克杯和一百枝笔
What do you care? Just go buy-- Don't you see what's going on here?"
你担心什么？只管去买。你看不出来里面有什么含意吗？”
Because I could see what was going on.
因为我看得出来怎么回事
He wanted to see every mug ever made before he chose that mug.
他想在选择之前先看看世上所有的杯子
We had our man in Havana, so to speak there on the set every day and watching it.
我们叫我们在哈瓦那的人员每天在现场注意
杰里·佩伦乔，投资人
And we saw some of the rushes.
我们看到一些尚未剪辑的镜头
Bud was more involved but Ridley's a perfectionist.
巴德更投入，但是雷德利是完美主义者
And Ridley came from the world of commercial doing commercials, from England
而且雷德利来自英国的商业广告界
and he was very, very successful.
他非常非常成功
And he's very meticulous, that's what his genius is.
而且他非常一丝不苟，那就是他天才的地方
And I won't take anything away from him, but it starts to slow down
我不会插手他的事情，但进度会慢下来
when you start to take many, many takes of certain scenes, and we did.
尤其当你某些特定场景开始拍很多次以后就会这样
We started out, we were a few weeks behind within a few weeks
我们开始拍摄，我们在几星期之内就已经落后了几个星期
巴德·约金，投资人
so it was... I thought things could start to take off.
所以这是……我认为事情可以开始进行得顺畅一点
Presume behind closed doors he started getting twitchy
他一开始就很焦躁不安
after the first week of shooting, we were two, three days behind.
在拍摄的第一个星期后，我们落后了两、三天
Then after the first couple of weeks shooting Tyrell's room
然后在前几周拍摄完泰瑞的房间后
suddenly, we went back and started re-shooting them.
突然间我们回顾并开始重新拍摄它们
艾弗·鲍威尔，副制片人
I would've thought he went apoplectic
我会觉得他很生气
because they put X amount of money and they were guaranteeing completion, you know? Jesus.
因为他们投入大笔金钱，而且他们保证完成，你知道吗？天啊
I mean, I would imagine him getting pretty irate.
我想他变得相当生气
I remember Ridley heard that they were upset at the number of takes he's done
我记得雷德利听到他们一看到样片时
once when they were watching dailies.
他们很不满他拍的镜头数
And Ridley got very angry.
雷德利就变得非常生气
And in retrospect, I think Ridley was sending a message back to them in his own way.
回想起来，我想雷德利用他自己的方式回送一个讯息给他们
He was having a tantrum and stuff.
他很生气
大卫·皮普尔斯，编剧
I think he was letting them know, "Don't fuck with me."
我觉得他要让他们知道：“别惹我”
What I saw, I liked.
我喜欢我看到的东西
I did think, you know, and I told this to Ridley
我的确是这么想，也告诉了雷德利
I thought he printed way too many takes in those days and shot too many takes.
我觉得那时候他复制太多镜头，也拍摄太多一样的镜头
I didn't think he needed-- I thought he--
我不认为他需要……我觉得他……
Now, obviously, he was looking for something in every one.
显然地他在每个镜头里找东西
And he and I sat-- Actually, a couple of times.
他和我坐下来……事实上，有好几次
--and I explained to him, "l don't quite understand.
我向他解释：“我不是很懂
Tell me why the 16th take was the best one out of this whole group."
告诉我为何第 16 个镜头是这一组里面最好的？”
And he would. He, in his own way, he had explained why he wanted it.
他会，他解释他为何想要它，他有他自己的方式
And there was a lot of film that was used.
很多其他电影也是这样
Yeah, there'd be irritation.
对，会恼怒
I'd do seven takes.
我拍了 7 次
"Why's he doing seven takes?"
为什么他拍了 7 次？
I know people who do 40 takes.
我认识拍 40 次的人
But seven takes in those days were not inordinate at all.
但是那时候 7 次根本就不算过度
I was definitely very different
我绝对是很不同的
镜头测试
which is why I've been very successful as a commercial maker
这就是为什么我一直是很成功的商业广告制作者
and would look at things in different lights and put things in a different way
而且会用不同的角度看事情，用不同的方式处理事物
so they hadn't seen that before.
所以他们以前从未见过
It's why you're hiring me.
这就是为何他们要雇用我的原因
And I think that went on, definitely. And that's, you know, how it goes.
我想那就是事情的走向
Ridley is a very strong-minded, knows what he wants, knows the look.
雷德利意志坚强，知道他要什么
And when you're trying to do a project that's this different
当你试着做一个这么不同的计划时
and you've got the studio laddie on the one side, and then Ridley and...
制片厂的人跟雷德利的想法就会不大一样
Nothing ever gets made without having its difficulties.
没什么事能够毫无困难地完成
All I remember in Ridley's making Blade Runner, anger.
雷德利制作 银翼杀手 的整个过程，我只记得：“生气”
托尼·斯科特，时空线索 导演 P.S.雷德利·斯科特的弟弟，曾执导过 壮志凌云
Anger at people not understanding his process or how he worked.
对不了解他的作法或他怎么工作的人生气
A lot of people don't bother to understand what is it that he's trying to do.
很多人不想了解他在试着做什么
And I think that's what happened at the time.
我想那就是当时发生的事
There was a lot of nervousness, you know?
当时有很多焦躁
And there was a lot of competition within themselves.
他们本身之间有很多竞争
安娜·玛丽亚·昆塔娜，剧本指导
And I think people made a lot of it in the beginning.
我想人们在一开始就有
Everybody already anticipated before shooting:
每个人在拍摄前就已经假设
"He's not gonna like us. He's gonna be unhappy.
“他不会喜欢我们，他会很不快乐
He thinks American crews are not good."
他觉得美国的工作人员不好”
I don't think he sat there and said, "American crews are not good."
我不认为他真的坐在那里说：“美国的工作人员不好”
He wanted everyone to be at their best.
他要每个人表现出最好的一面
I realized I couldn't bring in the people I'm used to because of the union.
我了解到我无法引进我熟悉的人，因为工会
A lot like the union, that's the way it goes.
很像工会，事情就是这样
And so being new on the block here
所以，身为这里的新人
I had to learn the process of l couldn't use this, couldn't use that.
我必须有个熟悉的过程，比如我不能用这个，不能用那个
You know, I'm used to being my own operator.
我习惯当我自己的经营者
There's nothing worse
没有更糟的事情了
when you've done 2500 commercials and I know I've got a very good eye.
当你完成 2500 个广告，而且我知道我的眼光很好
In three seconds I can give you a setup having walked in a room without even seeing it before.
走进房间的三秒内我就可以给你方案，甚至先前看都不用看过
So I don't like discussion.
所以我不喜欢讨论
I know exactly what I want when I walk in and say, "Do it."
当我走进来说：“动手吧”时，我知道我到底要什么
That's the director's job.
那就是导演的工作
Director's not meant to stand there and consult with half a dozen people in the room.
导演不是站在那里和房间里的一大堆人商议
The term "director" means direct, mate.
导演这个名词代表指导，伙计
Do the job.
完成工作
On your mark.
各就各位
Hello.
喂
Action.
开拍
And what can he do for you?
他可以为你做什么？
Can the maker repair what he makes?
他可以修复他犯的错吗？
My first day was a scene with-- Where I had to strangle my father or whatever I did to him.
我第一天的场景是我在必须勒死我父亲的地方
鲁特格尔·哈尔，罗伊·巴蒂饰演者
My father-maker.
我的造物主父亲
And...
而且
I'd never been on a production like this, you know?
我没有参与过这样的拍摄
Two hundred and fifty people, had no idea who everybody was.
有 250 个人，我不知道谁是谁
You know, got there at 6 in the morning and seeing this develop so slowly
早上 6 点到那里看到进展这么缓慢
and start to shoot a scene one day and end up with a scene being shot three days later
这一天开始拍一个场景，结果是三天后才要拍的场景
not knowing where you started again.
所以根本不知道怎么开头
It was a shock.
让人很震撼
But the great part about the shock was that, you know there was some brilliant people at work.
但是关于这个震撼最棒的部分是，有一些很棒的人参与
The DOP was wonderful.
摄影指导很棒
乔丹·克隆威斯，摄影指导
To see him-- How he would just paint, you know, with his light, and it took him hours sometimes.
看到他如何用他的灯光描绘，有时候要花上他好几个小时
Jordan came with his team, which I thought was fine because he's a great cameraman.
乔丹带他的团队来，我觉得他们很好，因为他是很棒的摄影师
And he came with two really good operators and...
他带两个很好的操作员来
So I thought, "Well, I can't operate."
所以我想：“我不会操作”
I would line up as much as possible. I like to line up, so, like that:
我会尽可能地安排，我喜欢安排，所以，像那样
That's what I do. That's what I know I'm doing.
那就是我做的事，那是我知道我在做的事
And that is more efficient and it's faster.
那更有效而且更快
On any film, people get frustrated.
在任何电影里大家都会有挫折
And you have an artistic director that sees it his own way
而且现在有一位很有艺术气息的导演用自己的方式来看待一切
and he's definitely the one driving the show.
他绝对是操纵整部片的人
迪克·哈特，灯光师
Jordan wasn't in the best of health
乔丹的健康不是在最佳的状态
so it was frustrating for him because he couldn't jump up and be with Ridley.
所以他很沮丧，因为他不能跳跃，不能和雷德利一起行动
He just wasn't physically able.
他在身体上无能为力
For a number of years, my father had suffered from a disease
多年来，我父亲一直生病
that we eventually found out was Parkinson's.
最后查出是帕金森氏症
杰夫·克隆威斯，搏击俱乐部 电影摄影师
That progressively through the course of the movie it took its toll
电影一直进行他的状况也就越差
and for the last month or so of the movie he was in a wheelchair.
缓慢地进展到电影最后一个月，他已经坐在轮椅上了
Ridley, to his credit, saw past the illness
真的是雷德利的功劳，不理这个疾病
and made a very bold choice in going with Jordan.
做了很大胆的抉择，与乔丹配合
Intense.
激烈
That's the best way to describe it.
这是最佳的描述
We had our scenes together.
我们一起完成我们的场景
You have your sort of very, very long...
你有非常长的
乔·托克尔，埃尔顿·泰瑞博士饰演者
Roy, "l want more life," and all.
“我想要更长的寿命”
Very intense.
非常激烈
Looked him right in the eye he looked me in the eye, we went at it and it was great.
直视他的眼睛，他看着我的眼睛，我们努力工作，真的很棒
Rutger's naturally theatrical.
鲁特格尔天生就很有戏剧性
I mean, in a good way.
我是指好的戏剧性
He understands the theater of it all.
你了解那就是戏剧
Take five.
第 5 拍
Camera rolling, mark it.
摄影机准备，开始
I want more life.
我要更多寿命
The facts of life.
生命的真相
Then the whole kill. There was a major sort of a deal.
然后整个屠杀是主要镜头
Because they had made an extra sort of head.
因为那要另外做头
I think it was a $20,000 head of Tyrell.
我想这是价值 2 万块的泰瑞头
That was one of the prosthetics that was made and it was made so that it could be crunched.
那是制作的义肢之一好让它可以被挤压
马文·G·威斯特摩，化妆师
They never used it.
他们从未用过
What we did is I ran some tubes up behind the ear
我们的做法是我在耳后用了管子
and when they did this...
当他们这么做时
it'd be: Primitive.
很原始
About as primitive as you can get.
大约和你所知的一样原始
You know, a bulb, and a tube, and some blood: And the blood squirted.
眼球，管子，和一些血，然后血喷出来
Tyrell was a Replicant as well.
泰瑞也是复制人
When he got his eyes squeezed out, and his head squeezed out nuts, bolts, springs.
当他挤出他的眼睛和他的头时，螺帽 、螺钉和弹簧
And that was the idea, that he was another front and another form of NEXUS 6, I guess.
当时就是这样设想的，他是另一种形式的连锁 6 号
And that would trigger me to go to the next floor.
那诱使我前进到下一楼
And in the next floor, in the pyramid of glass would be, you know
在下一楼，在玻璃金字塔里
Mr. Maker himself, dead for four years.
是死了四年的造物主先生
And so I had to design the sarcophagus
所以我必须设计石棺
and Batty was supposed to be there looking at his maker.
而罗伊·巴蒂应该要看着他的造物主
席德·米德，未来视觉艺术家
And I had him standing off to the right of the little painting I did
我让他站在小画的右边
with this sort of Mayan capsule he'd come out of, the entrance to the crypt.
他从一个像玛雅太空舱的东西出来，到地下室入口
That was never filmed either.
那也从未拍摄过
Harrison was supposed to be having this on-screen love affair with Rachael.
哈里森来应该和瑞秋在大屏幕上谈恋爱
And Sean Young was very young and extremely inexperienced and
肖恩·杨非常年轻，又很没经验
Ridley, I think, was more or less talking Sean through her performance to a certain extent.
雷德利我想多少有说服肖恩，让她表演到某种程度
And Sean and Harrison just did not click on any level.
肖恩和哈里森就是没有火花
Anytime you're doing a love scene is tricky.
你在拍爱情场景时的任何时候都很棘手
First of all, I feel for the actors having to do it, saying it's real.
首先，我觉得演员必须当真地表演
Or uncomfortable.
否则就不自在
And you can't really let it fly let go, because that's not what you're doing.
不能很放的去演，因为那不是你在做的事
It's not very professional.
这不是很专业
And so it's a waltz, it's actually a delicate waltz to find out
所以这是华尔兹，这真的是细致的华尔兹
what should it be, how far should it go and where's enough, enough.
要找出它应该是怎样，应该要多快，而且是否足够了
We scrapped an idea, Ridley did
我们放弃了一个点子，雷德利放弃的
where they put a piece of tape around my legs and they greased up my legs.
他们要用一段胶带缠住我的腿，他们用油涂我的腿
And then it got all over the costumes
然后弄得整件衣服都是
and then it didn't work and they're trying to grab my legs
根本行不通，然后他们试着抓住我的腿
the grabbing leg thing pulling my skirt up
抓住腿这个动作把我的裙子拉起来
and getting it all over the costumes.
费了很大的功夫
People complained, and it just didn't work.
大家一直抱怨，而且就是行不通
So we scrapped it.
所以我们就放弃了
So they cleaned my legs up and then we did something else.
所以我们就弄干净我的腿，然后我们做别的事情
But then Ridley told him to push me.
但接着雷德利叫他推我
And I remember being really surprised about that.
我记得我对这个感到很惊讶
And I also remember Harrison being-- I think I was crying afterwards too.
我也记得哈里森是……我想我后来哭了
And I remember Harry going to the side.
我记得哈里走到旁边
Like, I was sitting on that ledge where the blinds were behind me and we did the scene.
我坐在窗台，百叶窗在我身后
And he went over to the corner there and he turned away from me
他走过去角落那里，然后他转身背对我
and he took his pants and he mooned me because he was trying to make me laugh
他脱下裤子露出屁股戏弄我，因为他试着要让我笑
because I was going: And I looked up and he was mooning me.
因为我就要哭了……然后我抬头看，他露出屁股戏弄我
I think I started laughing, you know?
我开始大笑
And I think what he was trying to say was, you know: "Hey, it's not that bad, kid."
我想他想说的是：“嘿 ，没那么坏吧 ，孩子”
Sean had a very interesting part to play.
肖恩扮演的是很有趣的角色
Maybe one of the most interesting parts in the movie.
也许是电影里最有趣的角色之一
She understood what was going on.
她知道发生了什么事
She did, I think, a good job.
她做得很好
Harrison was always the great technician.
哈里森一直是很棒的技师
I mean, "No, kid. You have to sit here.
他会说：“好了，孩子，你得坐这里
Your face has to be here.
你的脸必须在这里
You have to be here.
你必须在这里
You have to move that way.
你必须那样动
Back up. Come here."
起来，到这里来”
He always knew exactly what to do.
他永远知道到底要做什么
And, you know, very much a technician in terms of lighting and talking.
很不错的技师，尤其是关于灯光和讲话方
I remember we had a metronome that was supposed to create a rhythm.
我记得我们有一个节拍器，那应该要创造出一种节奏
And we had this metronome going.
我们让这个节拍器动
And he went over and he went like that.
他走过去就像那样
And he stopped it.
然后他把它弄停
I said, "Why'd you do that?"
我说：“你干嘛这样？”
He says, "l don't feel like looping it, kid."
他说：“我不喜欢这个样子，孩子”
You know? And I was like, "What's looping?" You know, I had no idea of anything.
我好像说了：“什么样子？”我什么都不懂
So he was very much kind of teaching me the... Well, making fun of me more.
所以他有点像在教我……嗯，比较像是取笑我
But, you know-- Pointing out my errors.
但是，指出我的错误
Harrison never left his dressing room unless he was shooting.
哈里森从不离开他的化妆室，除非他在拍摄
So there wasn't a whole lot of interaction with any of us and Harrison
所以我们和哈里森没有很多互动
and/or Ridley and Harrison.
或是雷德利和哈里森两人
It did seem to when Harrison came prepared to work.
杰夫·沃克，市场顾问
确实当哈里森准备好来工作时
There wasn't a lot of dialogue-- I think that's fair to say --between the two.
没有很多对话，这样说他们两人应该很正确
Maybe all of that unhappiness actually helped him, you know
也许所有那些不快乐帮了他
to at least subliminally convey, you know, Deckard's own desperation.
至少下意识地传达了德卡自己的绝望
And his own unhappiness with his own life.
和他自己人生的不快乐
Because Blade Runner, for better or worse is one of Harrison Ford's signature performances.
因为 银翼杀手，不管怎样，都是哈里森·福特的代表作之一
I think it's one of his best performances.
我想这是他最棒的表演之一
Harrison Ford is probably one of the smartest actors I've ever worked with.
哈里森·福特可能是我合作过最聪明的演员之一
Top of the line.
极品
A, for what they can do.
一，是因为他们能做的事
But B, they're able to do it because they're smart.
但是二 , 他们能做因为他们聪明
It's not just intuition.
这不只是直觉
They work it out, you know?
他们很努力的
Sometimes they don't comprehend what I do for a living on a big movie.
有时候他们不了解，我做了什么来靠拍摄大电影生活
My performance is important as any other performance of any person in that film, particularly the star.
我的表现和任何其他人在电影里的表演一样重要，尤其是主演
My film-- The film that I make at the end of the day, is my movie.
我的电影，我拍的电影，在当天结束时，是我的电影
It may be a team thing as well.
它也可能是一个团体的成果
But I'm taking the knocks.
但是是我接受批评
I'm taking the bashes.
我接受打击
And probably I've developed it, et cetera, et cetera.
而且我可能已经准备好了等等
So yes, it's my movie.
所以对，这是我的电影
And I'm inviting people to come in and do it.
是我邀请人进来做事
And that's what a director is.
那就是导演做的事
I find it really easy and very encouraging to do what you feel.
我发现去做你感觉对的东西真的很简单也很具鼓励性
摩根·保罗，霍尔登饰演者
And then if he liked it, he'd just smile and be very happy.
然后如果他喜欢，他只是微笑，而且会非常快乐
And maybe then if he liked it, he'd even ask you to do something else you know?
如果他喜欢，他甚至也会要求你做其他的事
Because that was fun.
因为那很有趣
Let's do something further, you know?
我们再更进一步
I can't imagine an actor not liking him.
我无法想象像有演员不喜欢他
Deckard.
德卡
It's good to see you, old buddy.
看到你真好，老朋友
Downtown L.A., in front of the Bradbury Building in the middle of the night.
洛杉矶市区，在布莱德柏利大楼前面，半夜时分
Usually, our call pretty much always was at sunset.
通常, 我们的拍摄在日落时开始
We're vampire hours, you know?
我们是在吸血鬼时间工作
I was, you know, kind of buried in a pile of trash much like the screen test.
我有点像是被埋在一堆垃圾里
达丽尔·汉娜，普莉丝饰演者
And kind of met J.F. Sebastian the first time.
并且首次见到 J·F·塞巴斯蒂安
And also there was, of course, lots of rain.
当然也有很大的雨
And so one time when I was running away from J.F. Sebastian
所以有一次我逃离 J·F·塞巴斯蒂安时
I ran and hit the van and my arm went through the window.
我跑着撞到货车，我的手臂穿过窗户
And it wasn't breakaway glass so I still have a scar.
而且那不是易碎玻璃，所以我还有伤疤
It's a little bit keloided.
这是个小疤肿
So you can see there.
你可以看到在那里
But I had, like, you know, eight chips or nine chips taken out of there
但我好像是取出八或九块碎片
and there's still some more floating around in there, I think
我想还有更多在周围
which didn't help doing the back walkovers and things on the chipped elbow.
这并没有帮忙让事情变得更容易
I'd filmed in the Bradbury Building before
我以前在布莱德柏利大楼拍过
which is very pristine very clean.
那里非常原始，非常干净
An amazing place.
一个很棒的地方
Great ironwork and so forth that, visually, just is fabulous.
很棒的铁艺装饰，在视觉上就是很惊人
And lit it for a set. You know, a lot of backlight.
并且打灯作为背景，很多背光
Again, had the xenons passing through, and smoke.
除此之外，灯光闪过，还有烟雾
It was eerie.
令人毛骨悚然
But the amazing part about it is I don't really think that
但惊人的部分是我认为
the Bradbury people understood how Ridley wanted to do it
布莱德柏利大楼的人其实并不了解雷德利想怎么做
because it was a total mess.
因为完全是一团乱
In the interior, we had a 65-foot truck filled with debris.
在内部，我们有装满碎片的 1.65 米高的小车
And we had, of course, rain inside the building.
而且在大楼内下雨
We had rain everywhere.
我们到处都有雨
And what we would have to do--
我们必须这么做
Because the building was occupied at the time--
因为大楼当时有人使用
We could get it at 6:00 at night
我们可以在晚上 6 点用
and at 6:00 in the morning we had to be out of there and it had to be clean.
早上 6 点我们就必须离开那里，而且得清干净
So because it looks like it's decrepit and filthy we couldn't figure out a way at first
所以因为那里看起来很破旧脏乱，我们刚开始想不出办法
but then we came up with the idea of we took cork
后来我们想到了一个点子，用软木
and crumbled up cork
我们弄碎软木
because it has the same texture and color as mud and dirt.
因为它和泥土有相同的质地和颜色
So we'd throw cork all over the floors and the rain would absorb it.
所以我们把软木丢得到处都是，雨水会吸收它
So the next morning, when you swept everything up it was, like, clean
所以隔天早上，当你打扫时就好像，很干净
and didn't have to be scrubbed with soap and water.
而且不必用肥皂和水刷洗
Because we probably had no more than an hour to get out of the building every day.
因为我们每天可能只有不到一小时的时间离开大楼
When I first came onto the set
当我第一次到摄影棚时
I walked down the lot through this maze and saw these signs and buildings and whatnot.
穿过这个迷宫走到片厂看到这些招牌和大楼
I said to myself, "Wow, this is astronomical.
我对我自己说：“哇，真是庞大
吴汉章，汉尼拔·周饰演者
It's gonna take forever to do this film if it hasn't already."
一定得花上很久的时间制作这部片”
I thought I was going to go to the studio and see a so-called refrigerated lab.
我想我要去片厂，看看所谓的冷冻实验室
They shot it in a real fridge, basically.
他们基本上在真的冰库拍
A monster fridge.
一个大冰库
Let's say inside was frosty.
这么说吧，里面一片白霜
That was cold in that meat locker, boy.
那个冰库真叫人受不了，天啊
I didn't know how long it took before the cameras would freeze.
我不知道摄影机多快会结冰
But you had to really be in and out after maybe 20 minutes, half an hour something like that
你必须进进出出也许每 20 分钟，也许每半小时
or else the oil would all freeze up on the damn things.
否则油就会冻结
In a way, it was kind of strange why they did that
在某种程度上他们这么做有点奇怪
because the conditions were almost uncontrollable.
因为状况几乎无法控制
They could not set the temperature of that freezer
他们不能设定那个冰库的温度
to where they could just get the cold
一个刚好他们能忍受的温度
and see the breath coming out and everything looks frozen.
看得到呼出的气，而且让一切看起来都像结冻的样子
We started off with a couple of arcs in the freezer.
我们在冰库里用几个弧灯开始
Well, they're carbon arcs.
嗯，它们是碳弧灯
They are actually burning coal.
它们其实是燃烧煤
And after about an hour people were sniffing around.
大约一小时后，大家就会到处闻
About another hour, people were starting to get ill
大约再过一小时，大家就开始不舒服
because we were, number one, taking the oxygen out of the air
因为首先，我们人体在消耗氧气
and the carbon-- The smoke from the carbon people were getting sick.
其次，碳……碳产生的烟，大家闻了变得想吐
We had to shut down the arcs and literally open up the freezer
我们必须关闭弧灯，打开冰库
get all the air out, had fans going.
让所有空气出去，打开风扇
The lights were not working and then, you know, people are yelling:
灯光失去作用，然后大家在大叫
"What they gonna do?"
“他们要怎么办？”
And bring the lights out and the camera.
带走灯光和摄影机
And the producer was on to Ridley: "That's good enough. That's good enough." Or whatever.
然后制片去找雷德利说：“够了，够了。”或随便什么
Like I said, I wouldn't wanna work in that atmosphere again.
像我说的，我不想再一次在那种地方工作
It's just too much.
真的是太过了
Too much was at stake at too short a time.
在太短的时间内冒太大的险
Probably one of the most unique experiences on a backlot for sure, that I've ever seen.
这可能是在露天片厂最独特的经验之一，当然是我前所未见的
All of the night scenes on Blade Runner, which were long--
银翼杀手 的所有夜景都很长
There were approximately 33 days of night.
大概有 33 天的夜晚
The night scenes were all shot on what's called the New York Street set.
所有夜景都在一个叫纽约街道的场景拍的
And this, of course, is where The Maltese Falcon had been filmed
这当然也是 马尔他之鹰 的拍摄地
by Warner Bros. in the 1940s
是华纳兄弟在 1940 年代的作品
and it was just their standing urban New York type of look.
就是这个，他们纽约典型的样子
To shoot a studio street on Blade Runner you know, on the Warners lot, would look crap.
在华纳的场地拍摄 银翼杀手 的街道的话，会很糟
If you look at all the sort of TV series and things
如果你看所有那种电视影集的东西
and see where they've shot on the studio street, it looks like a studio street.
而且看他们在摄影棚街道拍摄，看起来全都像摄影棚街道
So wetting it down and having things in heavy rain
所以把它弄湿，让东西在大雨中
you know certainly started to bring it to life.
的确开始让它有生命
The reason why I could not have done those sets in daylight:
我为何不在白天拍那些景的理由是
It wouldn't have looked good.
看起来不会好
They would've looked pretty bad.
看起来会相当不好
And we would've had to spend more money.
我们就必须花更多钱
So by shooting at night, you save money.
所以在夜里拍摄能省钱
And it looks better.
看起来更好
And it's always raining, it looks better.
而且总是在下雨，看起来更好
That's what it's about.
这就是原因
And where's--? Why is there always smoke?
还有为什么老是有烟雾？
I haven't got enough money, and it looks better.
因为我没有足够的钱，而且这样看起来更好
So those three elements are all-- Those are my armory.
所以那三项元素就是全部，那些是我的宝库
Night, wet, smoke.
夜晚、下雨、烟雾
Someone on the crew once said that if you walked on the Blade Runner set
有工作人员说如果你走在 银翼杀手 的街上
you felt like you were at a Pennsylvania coal mine.
你会觉得你就在宾州煤矿
And it's very true, because the crew had all these white painter's masks on
这是真的 ，因为工作人员戴上这些白口罩
and they had soot all over their face and they had little painter's goggles on
而且他们脸上都是煤灰，他们戴上小护目镜
and everyone was tired and it stank and it was mildewed and it was wet.
每个人都很累而且又臭，发霉，又潮湿
The smoke... They had beehive smoke.
烟雾，他们弄出大量烟雾
Basically, you were looking for an urban area in 2020
基本上，你要的是 2020 年的市区
that is just-- The sun never shines, that-- Perpetual fog and drizzle.
太阳从未升起，长期雾蒙蒙又下雨
Blade Runner had tons of atmospherics.
银翼杀手 中有很多大气气体
M·埃梅特·沃尔什，队长哈利·布莱恩特饰演者
A lot of it's at night, smoke and--
很多在夜晚，烟雾和
And the crew would be walking around with these gas masks on
剧组人员会戴这些防毒面具四处走动
because they've been breathing the stuff 20 hours a day, you know for weeks and weeks.
因为他们每天 20 小时呼吸这东西，有好几个星期都是这样
I was outside our stage.
我在我们舞台的外面
It was filled with smoke too and Ridley came out to smoke a cigar or something
也充满了烟雾。然后雷德利出现了，他好像在抽一根雪茄
and I looked at him, I said, "Ridley, do you have smoke in your house?"
我看着他，我说：“雷德利，你家有烟吗？”
盖里·康斯，特效协调
He laughed, he said, "No, not really."
他笑着说：“其实并没有”
But, you know, very good effect.
但你知道，效果很好
Well, I thought the art direction was brilliant
嗯，我想艺术指导很出色
and the world that was created was very dense and interesting.
而且创造的世界有深度又有趣
Part of the look of the film had to do with the fact that it was shot outside at night.
电影外观的部分很多是晚上在外面拍的
But it was a bitch working every night, and the...
但是每晚工作实在很糟糕，而且
All night long, often in the rain.
一整晚，通常都在雨中
So it wasn't the most pleasant shoot.
所以这不是最愉快的拍摄
Action, please.
开拍，拜托
Action, everybody.
开拍了，各位
Anyone that watches the picture knows that we were doused with water day in and day out.
看这片子的人都知道我们泡在水中，一天又一天
And that meant we had to have twice as many costumes
那表示我们必须有两倍以上的服装
because how many ti-- Every time, they got soaked.
因为每次都会泡水
You had to reshoot the damn scene again.
你必须重拍该死的场景
You had to put on another costume, you couldn't wait to dry it.
你必须穿上另一件衣服，你等不及把它弄干
There was always dialogue that we were behind schedule.
总是有人说我们进度落后
I think it all culminated when we were shooting on the backlot at night with the street exteriors.
我想最严重的时候是，当我们晚上在露天片场拍外面街道时
Never less than 13, 14 hours.
绝不少于 13、14 个小时
We would shoot all night.
我们会整夜拍摄
Kind of the joke was: "Keep your eyes in the east
有个笑话是：“注意看东方
because soon as you see that glow you know we've got only about another hour."
因为你一看到光，你就知道我们只剩大约一小时了”
Some days we never shot.
有些日子我们绝不拍摄
And then some days we made two shots a day.
有些日子我们一天拍两个镜头
One was on meal penalty, and one was at sunrise.
一次是吃饭时间，另一次是日出
麦克·金尼，第一助理摄影师
And that happened more than once.
那样的情况发生不只一次
What he did, which was the first time I had been allowed to experience it was that he ran--
他做的事，我第一次体验到，就是他放了
He had huge Voice of the Theaters speakers on top of the buildings.
他在大楼楼顶放着很大的戏院之声扩音机
And so when he would start the scene
所以当他开始拍摄
and get the understanding of what the reality of that moment was he'd play the sound score.
并且了解那时候的状况时，他会放配乐
Vangelis was-- Had already given him some temp stuff.
范吉利斯，银翼杀手 配乐师
范吉利斯已经给了他一些暂时的东西
And he'd blast it into the street
他会在街道上播放出来
so that you were working inside of a full, ongoing environment of sound and special effects.
以便让你在很完整的环境内工作，有音效和特效
爱德华·詹姆斯·奥莫斯，加夫饰演者
The spinners were coming up and down
未来车上上下下
and they had the cranes working and all the smoke and all the water.
而且他们使用吊车，还有所有的烟雾和水
And that backlot came alive.
整个露天片场活了起来
What he was trying to do was just incredible.
他试着做的事情真是不可思议
And I remember we would sit for eight hours trying to do one setup.
我记得我们会坐八小时，试着完成一个方案
And you would do it, like, right?
而且你会去做，对吧？
And you could pretty much-- What you're seeing in your eye is what you're gonna see.
而且你眼中看的就是你将看到的东西
It's really pretty much that.
这真的相当不得了
But then I remember going to dailies
然后我记得去看样片
and it's the one film to this day where I went to dailies and I went
而且这是至今唯一一部电影会让我看了样片后说
"We shot that?"
“这是我们拍的？”
I st-- I was shocked.
我很震惊
火爆现场
不安的回忆
Blade Runner, particularly to fans
对影迷来说 银翼杀手
is known as a movie that has some fairly egregious blunders.
是一部有些相当大的纰漏但又颇具知名度的电影
And one of the most visual of those would be Zhora's death scene
最显而易见的错误之一是卓拉死亡的那一幕
保罗·M·萨蒙， Future Noir: The Making of Blader Runner 作者
where Joanna Cassidy, as Zhora is crashing through all these display-case windows.
饰演卓拉的乔安娜·卡西迪撞入这些展示窗
It's like another one of these gigantic oversights
就像是这些大错误之一
to put hair on someone that looked nothing like my hair.
把头发放在某人身上，看起来一点也不像我的头发
乔安娜·卡西迪，卓拉饰演者
I mean, that's something that was such a big stunt.
我是说，那是很大的特技
Had to be planned in advance, and unfortunately it wasn't.
必须事先计划，但不幸地并没有
It was basically a wig pulled out of somebody's bag.
它基本上是从某人的袋子里拉出来的假发
And it just never-- It never cut it.
而且从没剪过
She's the double, because I won't risk Joanna.
她是替身，因为我不想让乔安娜冒险
雷德利·斯科特，导演
Running through--
撞过去
Because even though you're running through sugar-- That's not plate glass.
因为即使你撞穿糖玻璃，那不是平板玻璃
It's got to have been large sheets of sugar glass.
它必须是大片的糖玻璃
But the sugar glass that usually breaks is thin, which is panes like that.
但是通常破的糖玻璃很薄，是像那样的玻璃片
That must've been large sheets very carefully put up.
必须很小心地搭一大片
So when you go through that stuff, you could still cut yourself.
所以当你穿过那东西时，你可能还是会割伤自己
That was a very famous stuntwoman, by the way, named Lee Pulford.
顺便一提，这是当时很有名的女替身，名叫李宝佛
Lee was really well-known and respected within the stunt community.
李在特技演员中真的很有名，很受尊重
But the problem with her particular scene and moment in the movie was that
但是她在电影中那一幕的问题是
at that time, that was shot at the end of principal photography and
那时候主要拍摄已经接近尾声
once again, the money issues were bearing down hard on everyone
而且钱的问题又重压在大家身上
and now we were facing time issues.
现在我们面临时间的问题
Everything was rushed.
一切很匆忙
And you only get one shot at that.
你只能够拍一个镜头
There's not two shots.
不能拍两个镜头
That's it.
就是这样
Now that would probably be digitally done
现在的话就可能会利用数字技术完成
最终剪辑：绿幕拍摄，2007 年 4 月 13 日
or I'd shoot that for two nights minimum.
或是最少利用两个晚上拍完
Once you make that mess and you tidy up you gotta move off and do something else.
一旦你搞砸又整理好了，你就得继续去做别的事情
I remember them putting that wig on and I just looked and I went:
我记得他们戴上假发，我只是看着说
"l can't believe we're shooting this now." And I protested.
“我不敢相信我们现在拍这个。”我抗议
I said, you know: "For God's sakes, wait another night."
我说：“看在老天的分上，再等一晚”
You know, let the woman get a decent hairpiece on.
让她戴顶像样的假发
I think one of the greatest images in the film--
我想电影中最棒的意象之一
Ridley came over-- He came over to me, said, "Okay, I want you to do this now.
雷德利走过来，他走向我说：“好吧，我要你现在做这件事
I want you to go get some Plexiglas and break it up."
我要你去拿一些树脂玻璃，把它打碎”
He took all these pieces that I had cut up and laid down that looked like shattered glass
他拿了我切碎的这些碎片把它们放下来，让它看起来像碎玻璃
大卫·L·斯奈德，美术指导
and mixed it with the glass
并且和玻璃混在一起
and there must've been about six or eight C-stands around there
一定有大约六或八个灯架在周围
where we hung neon on there and what looks like a happenstance kind of thing
我们把霓虹灯放在那里，看起来就像一个偶然事件
it took forever to set it up
要花很久来设置
and that image really sticks in my mind because it's so beautiful.
那个意象真的深植我心中，因为好美
That time, I was invited down. I was on the set, man.
那次，我接受邀请，我在现场
汉普顿·范彻，执行制片人、编剧
I saw Yorkin and those guys on Ridley and on Deeley and it was not pretty.
我看到约金和那些家伙跟雷德利和迪利争执，并不是很愉快
I didn't have much to do with them and didn't see much of them l know
我和他们没多大关系，也没太常去看他们
till we started getting behind schedule.
直到我们开始进度落后
I know Bud Yorkin was the guy who used to come down on the set
我知道是巴德·约金那家伙，他以前会来现场
and in particular, I remember one night when we were shooting a difficult sequence
特别是我记得有一夜，当我们在拍困难的这组镜头
艾弗·鲍威尔，副制片人
Zhora getting shot.
卓拉中枪的戏
And I remember Bud Yorkin was down there, just wanting to know--
我记得巴德约金就在那里，只是想知道
Expletives apart, why we were going so slowly
除了咒骂以外，我们为何进展得这么慢
and what the hell, you know, was going on
还有到底是在干什么
and pointing his finger pretty aggressively at Ridley.
并相尝侵略性地指雷德利
As a director, I really had empathy for what he was going through.
身为导演我真的了解他的心情
I knew it was a huge task and so forth.
我知道这是项大任务
I never liked the idea of producing.
我从不喜欢制作的点子
巴德·约金，投资人
I only produced, in my life, two pictures that I produced and didn't direct.
我一生中只制作过两部片子，是我制作，不是执导
And that's very frustrating for anybody who's a director directors that wanna produce
对任何当导演的人来说，搞制作都很难受
because they're watching another director work and they could say
因为他们看着另一个导演工作，他们会说
"God, come on, move it" or "Change that" or "Why are we arguing?"
“天啊，好了，动一下”或是：“改变一下”或是：“我们为什么要争执？”
I think Bud secretly wanted to direct himself
我想巴德自己背地里想导演
小艾伦·拉德，拉德公司总裁
and if he had, it would be obviously a very different movie.
若是他执导的话，显然这会是很不同的电影
There was conversations like that that led nowhere
像那样的对话没啥意义
because we stood by Ridley and said, "You gotta finish the movie.
因为我们支持雷德利，并且会说：“你得完成这部电影
That's what we bought, that's what we're paying for."
我们花钱买的就是你
They'd say, "The suits are coming in."
他们会说：“穿西装的来了”
And you'd see the suits and Ridley would look over.
你会看到穿西装的人来了，雷德利会注意一下
He'd keep going, whatever he was doing
他会继续手头的东西，不管是什么
and they'd say, "We're gonna have such-and-such a meeting," whatever.
他们会说：“我们要开个如此如此的会议，”诸如此类的
Then we'd break for lunch and you'd see them all go in
然后我们会休息吃午饭，你会看到他们都进去
and everybody going, "That's it, they're gonna shut down."
每个人都会说：“就这样了，他们要停工了”
安娜·玛丽亚·昆塔娜，剧本指导
And I used to think: I knew it.
我常常会想：我就知道
I used to always, to myself-- I never said anything.
我以前总是这样想，心里想，我从没说出来过
And you'd see Ridley go in, and he'd come out
你会看到雷德利进去，再出来
and it must've been like a 12-round punch-up, you know
这一定就像 12 回合的比赛
but he came out. He wasn't budging.
但他出来了，他不让步
I was warned a couple of times to speed up, that's about it.
我被警告好几次要加快速度，就这样得了
I said, "I can. I will speed up if I can
我说：“我可以，如果可以我会加速
but unfortunately, these are big setups."
但不幸地，这些是大计划”
I came on at the end of the movie.
我在拍片尾声时加入
The pressure was unbelievable.
压力非常庞大
I don't know how Ridley made it through.
我不知道雷德利是怎么撑过来的
I mean, I guess he just toughened up
我是说，我猜他就是很坚强
and just, you know, as he can do
就是，你知道，像他能做的
and just put one foot in front of the other.
就是，一步一步坚定向前
He was not about to let anyone stop him.
他不会让任何人阻止他
There were a lot of people on Blade Runner
银翼杀手 里有很多人
looking around, watching you know, because it was taking a long time to shoot it, and it...
四周都有人看着，因为这要花很长的时间拍
There were always money people coming, saying, "You can't--" You know
总是有很多人进来说：“你不能……”
and Ridley would not give in.
雷德利不会放弃
Basically, they couldn't break him and, you know
基本上，他们不能让他妥协
he was breaking them
而是他让他们妥协
M·埃梅特·沃尔什，队长哈利·布莱恩特饰演者
and no one knew what in hell was going on, except Ridley.
而且没有人知道到底发生什么事，除了雷德利自己
And he wanted to do what he had to do you know
而且他想做他必须做的事
reminded me of George C. Scott in The Hustler.
让我想起 江湖浪子 一片中的乔治·C·斯科特
"I'm talking about money!" Or whatever.
“我说的是钱！”什么的
"You owe me money!"
“你欠我钱！”
I think we went through that 20 million-- Went through $20 million
我想我们花了 2 千万……花了 2 千万
and all of a sudden somebody's tapping on your shoulder and saying--
然后突然间有人拍你肩膀要求更多钱
杰里·佩伦乔，投资人
So then you start paying a little closer attention
所以当你必须开始亲自写支票时
when you have to start writing the checks yourself, so to speak.
你会更注意一点
He's completion guarantor, and they put a lot of money into a movie
他是完成制作的担保人，而且他们在这电影上投资了不少钱
and if you try to see it from his point of view, you know what the hell was going on, you know?
如果你试着从他的观点去看到底发生了什么事？
Why were we so far behind schedule?
为何我们目前进度落后这么多？
You know, we were supposedly, you know professional filmmakers and such--
我们本应该是专业的电影制作人和
I was concerned about the budget but I knew that Jerry and Bud were on completion.
我担心预算，但是我知道杰瑞和巴徳会负责完成
I mean, not that I wanted to go into their completion but knew we were safe if we had to.
我是说，不是我想介入他们的事，而是知道如有必要时我们会很安全
I would never, ever deliberately ignore a budget and just say, you know:
我绝不会故意忽略预算说
"Fuck it. Let's just spend the money."
“去他的，我们来花钱吧”
I just don't function that way.
我才不会那么做
It drives me crazy to go over budget. I hate that.
超预算让我快疯了，我很讨厌
For me to go over schedule, I hate that.
跟不上进度表，我也很不喜欢
And one of the important things is, when you're shooting, particularly from my--
我觉得重要的事情是，当你在拍摄时，特别是来自我的
I'm one of those directors who always must be told where I am financially what I've got to do
我是那种，总是必须被告知财务状况，而且要怎么做的导演之一
but be told early enough so I can do something about it.
但要及早被告知，好让我可以想办法解决
My job is to get what I promise I'm gonna get.
我的工作是得到我保证会得到的东西
And that's why it was good for any investor as they probably all have discovered by now.
所以这对任何投资人都好，他们到现在可能都发现了
There was a sequence
有一组镜头
where they wanted to do hand-to-feet, hand-to-feet, flip-flop gymnastic things across here
他们想要手到脚、手到脚、后手翻那种体操的东西越过这里
盖里·康斯，特效协调
and wind up straddling Harrison Ford.
最后跨坐在哈里森福特身上
So I had this girl that-- Her and I had been rehearsing at nights for, I don't know
所以我叫这个女孩，她和我一直在晚上排演
in the gymnasium, and she got it down pretty good.
就在体育馆，她做得相当好
Well, in that sequence, in about, I'll say, 20 minutes
在那组镜头里，大约 20 分钟的时间
Ridley had her totally wore out.
雷德利让她彻底累垮了
She was over in the corner gasping for air.
她在角落喘着气
She'd done it I don't know how many times.
我不知道她做了多少次
And they came to me and they said, "We got a problem here."
他们来找我，他们说：“我们这里有个问题”
I said, "Yeah, well, go shoot something else or go to lunch or whatnot
我说：“行，去拍别的东西或是去吃午饭之类的
and I'll have a guy here after lunch."
我在午饭后会找人来这里”
I knew there was a gymnast guy, a little guy that could double girls
我知道有个体操运动员，一个小家伙可以帮女孩替身演出
and so I brought him in the afternoon.
所以我下午带他进来
One of them was a guy, actually, and quite a stocky kind of wider guy than me.
他们其中之一是个男人，相当结实，比我宽的家伙
达丽尔·汉娜，普莉丝饰演者
Not shaped the same at all.
根本身形就不一样
Rehearsal for Ridley was really doing it.
雷德利的排演是真的去做
Not, "I'll do this, and this, and this--"
而不是：“我会做这个、这个和那个”
You really did it.
你真的要做
Flip-flop, flip-flop, hit the wall, you know.
后手翻、后手翻、撞墙
And then slide down the wall.
然后滑下墙壁
For 15 times, or whatever it was, you know.
做了大约 15 次
So that guy on that afternoon probably made more money than he'd made in two years, you know.
所以下午那个家伙可能赚的钱比他两年内赚得还多
So before we started shooting the next morning we went into this trailer
所以在我们隔天早上开拍之前，我们进入这辆拖车
and Mr. Deeley said: "We got a problem with your stunt people."
迪利先生说：“我们觉得你的特技演员们有点问题”
I said, "What's the problem?"
我说：“问题是什么？”
"This guy made--"
“这家伙赚了……”
I said, "You don't have a problem with the stunt people, you got a problem with Ridley."
我说：“特技演员没问题，问题在雷德利”
I said, "The guy did it."
我说：“这家伙做到了”
I kept track, because I knew I was gonna be called on to cover. So I kept track.
我有在记，因为我知道我会被叫去核对，所以我有记
"How many times is it?" And I just paid him a little bit every time he did it.
”多少次了？”每次他做我就付他一点
So when I explained the situation to him, he said, "Oh, thank you very much."
所以当我向他解释情况时，他说：“哦，非常谢谢你”
So I left and nothing changed, you know.
所以我离开了，也没什么改变
They just accepted it.
他们就是接受了
Harrison insisted that, you know
哈里森坚持
when I'm supposed to be shoving my fingers up his nose
我应该真的用我的手指拉他的鼻子
and lifting his head up and throwing him back down
把他的头抬起来，把他往后摔下去
I really do it you know.
我是真的做了
Like, I was, like, trying to sort of gently, you know and pretend
我试着温柔点，假装像真的一样
and he was like, "No, you gotta just do it."
他就说：“不，你得放手去做”
And his nose was bleeding and it was gnarly
他的鼻子流血了，很可怕
but, you know it was sort of the only way to do it, was just to go for it.
但这是唯一能做的方式，就是放手去做
And at one point, actually, we had to do a reshoot of some of my close-ups
事实上我们必须重拍某些我的特写镜头
and I was really stunned because I had been-- I mean, it was a-- It was a gnarly fight.
我真的很震惊，因为我一直……我是说，这是这急可怕的打斗
I was really fighting and I was sure really hurting Harrison as well.
我真的在打斗，我肯定真的有伤到哈里森
And he really wanted me to be, you know, grimacing and mugging and... You know.
他其实想要我，扮鬼脸、做怪脸和……
And so we redid the close-up of it
所以我们重拍了特写镜头
so that I could be you know, looking a little more horrific, I guess.
好让我可以看起来更可怕一点，我猜是这样
It was a place where she's sitting there all froze up in this real skintight outfit
她就穿着这套紧身衣坐在那里
and she kept trying to kick Harris-- She had to kick Harrison.
她一直试着踢哈里森，她必须踢哈里森
Kick him away or something, and it didn't work for Ridley.
踢走他之类的，这对雷德利来说不够好
And he said, "Combs, you get in the outfit."
他说：“康斯，你穿上紧身衣”
Well... I said-- It was a girl's tight-knit--
我说……这是女生的紧身衣
I made them pull the dressing room right up the back of the stage and I said
我叫他们拉一间更衣室，就在舞台后，我说
"Okay, now I'll get in the outfit and then I'll get it right here, and don't nobody laugh.
“好吧，现在我会穿上紧身衣，然后进来，不准有人笑
And as soon as I kick Harrison, I'm going back out in the dressing room."
我一踢完哈里森，就会回到更衣室的”
So, yeah, I did the kick for Daryl.
对，是我替达丽尔踢的
It was terrible.
糟透了
There was a scene that I did that wasn't in the film.
有一场我拍的戏并不在影片中
I was supposed to be sort of frozen and there were all these rats crawling all over me.
我应该要不动，让这些老鼠爬在我身上
And I was kind of freaked out about the idea of working with rats
我有点被这主意吓到，和老鼠一起拍戏
because I'd never really been around rats before
因为我以前从未和老鼠太接近
and then they told me that the night before we were supposed to shoot
然后要拍的前一晚他们告诉我
they left the water drip in the terrarium on
他们让水滴进养老鼠的玻璃容器里，水一直滴着
and it had accidentally overfilled and filled the terrarium
意外地装满了玻璃容器
and my compassion, you know, came on--
我开始同情它们
I felt so bad for the rats that suddenly I wasn't afraid of them anymore
我觉得老鼠很可怜，突然我不再害怕
and so I had them all, like, crawling all over me.
所以我让它们全部爬到我身上
And I think that was actually the only thing that we shot that didn't end up in the movie.
我想那是我们唯一拍了，但是没有在电影里出现的东西
Among the many, many things and ideas that were being developed and then discarded
在许多、许多设想了但又丢弃的事情和点子之中
this particular sequence almost made it to the camera.
这组镜头差一点就被拍上了
And that was supposed to be the snake dance with Zhora in Taffey Lewis' bar.
是卓拉和蛇跳舞的片段，在泰飞刘易斯酒吧里
Ladies and gentlemen Taffey Lewis presents Miss Salome and the snake.
各位先生、女士……泰飞刘易斯酒吧为您呈现赛隆小姐与蛇
Watch her take the pleasure from the serpent...
注意看她从蛇身上得到乐趣
I was gonna use clay animation.
我本来要用黏土动画
It was gonna start off as a mud pit going to be much more exotic
本来是以一个泥浆池开始，变得更具异国情调
and it'd start off with what I called a clay dancer.
一开始我称之为黏土舞者
So it's a dancer in a mud pit, right
所以是泥浆池里的舞者
who starts off to be a snake which will morph into becoming a woman
舞者一开始是一条蛇，然后变形成为一个女人
化妆测试
then a woman and snake, and it was very elaborate.
然后是一个女人和蛇，相当精心的制作
And this was all, you know, pie in the sky.
这一切就像是遥不可及的梦想
I'm never gonna get to this, I just thought it'd be pretty cool to do it.
我一定做不到，我只是想说能这样做一定相当酷
We had created this beautiful dance
我们创造了这场美丽的舞蹈
and we choreographed it and had it worked out with a snake
我们精心设计，再加上蛇
and it just was such a pity that we never got to do that.
只是真的很可惜我们从未能完成
The cheapest thing of all, I had to play it off on Harrison Ford's face
最容易的是，我用哈里森·福特的脸
with this guy off camera saying what was going on
让远离摄影机的家伙述说发生了什么事
which was kind of-- That's the cheap way out.
这是最容易的出路
But it shows you that you don't wanna watch a whole set piece
但这表示你不想看整个舞台布景
the whole film grinds to a halt.
整个电影停下来
You wanna get on with the story.
你想发展故事
So in fact, the narrative-- That was a good decision, not to bother
所以事实上，这个叙述是个好决定, 不麻烦
because it really was about Harrison getting to Zhora.
因为这其实是关于哈里森找到卓拉
Any long picture is exhausting for everybody on it.
拍摄时间长的电影对每个人来说都很费力
So once that patience goes, then people get really snappy.
所以耐心一消失，大家都很暴躁
The gulf between Ridley's way of working and a lot of the members of the crew
雷德利和许多工作人员之间的分歧
who'd been, in some cases, lolling around studios for years
有些人待在摄影棚也很多年了，有不同的工作方式
迈克尔·迪利，制片人
began to become apparent.
分歧开始显露
The crew that we had was a fast crew.
我们的工作人员很迅速
They were a thorough crew and a professional crew.
他们是周密的工作人员，也是专业工作人员
All departments. Props, Wardrobe, Makeup, Hair, everybody was fabulous.
所有的部门，道具、服装、化妆、发型，每个人都很棒
马文·G·威斯特摩，化妆师
And I've worked with these people subsequently, on other shows.
我随后和这些人也有一起工作，在其他的表演中
Ridley, who, at the time, he was not well-liked by the American crew
当时雷德利不受美国工作人员喜欢
because he felt they were not a good crew
因为他觉得他们不是好工作人员
and that sort of set a problem pace.
那导致问题产生
But everybody worked exceedingly hard, and was right there on the dime.
但每个人都非常辛苦，很努力
We went off and then we-- Somebody handing out these free T-shirts
我们拍摄后，然后有人分发这些免费的 T 恤
which had a rather defiant, or revolutionary, statement addressed towards Ridley.
上面有针对雷德利的，相当大胆、叛逆的言论
And this had come about because, most unfortunately
这件事会发生，因为最不幸地
somebody had filched from his trailer a British newspaper article
有人从他的拖车偷了一份英国报纸文章
in which he was asked whether he'd rather work in England or in America.
他在上面被问到他宁愿在英国或在美国工作
Now, working for an English paper, you say England.
替英国报工作，你当然说英国
You know, in England, I'm so, you know, known here
在英国，我很有名
crews are more liable to say: "Ready when you are, guv." That's it.
工作人员比较会说：“长官，你准备好时我们就好了”
That is it.
就是这样
Really upset the crew.
真的让工作人员很沮丧
Really upset the crew.
真的让工作人员很沮丧
-So I did the T-shirt wars.
-所以我发起 T 恤战争
-Katie Haber came in and said:
-凯蒂·哈伯进来说
"They made these T-shirts and they're gonna wear them tomorrow."
“他们做了这些 T 恤，而且他们明天要穿”
I said, "What about?"
我说：“关于什么事？
She said, "The article you did."
她说：“你那篇文章”
I said, "What article I did?"
我说：“我什么文章？”
Somebody had actually got the article from England
有人真的从英国拿到文章
printed a pile of them and put them on the tea trolley.
印了一大堆放在茶具台上
Michael and I sat down with Ridley and said
迈克尔与我和雷德利坐下来说
"What can we do to smooth this over?
“我们要怎么样才能平息这场风波？
We can't make a film with everybody hating you."
显然我们不能和恨你的人一起制作电影”
凯瑟琳·哈伯，执行制作
I think Deeley came up with the phrase "Xenophobia Sucks."
我想迪利想出了这段话：“仇外太逊了”
He said, "Well, xenophobia means fear of strangers.
他说：“仇外表示讨厌外国人
And basically what's going on is these people don't understand you and the way you work.
基本上发生的事情是这些人不了解你，不了解你工作的方式
So if we put something on a T-shirt that makes people come up to us and say
所以如果我们在 T 恤上写东西让别人来问我们说
'What does it mean? '
‘这是什么意思？’
it'll sort of smooth over a lot of rough edges."
就应该能缓和很多的不合”
And I got a hat made with all this scrambled egg on it.
我有一个用金色编带装饰的帽子
With a Naval-- You know, like head commander of a big aircraft carrier.
有海军……像航空母舰的舰长
You know how people wear those ridiculous hats.
你知道有人会戴那些荒谬的帽子
And on it, it had "guv" printed.
而且上面还印了：“长官
So I put on the T-shirt the next morning with "Xenophobia Sucks" on it
所以我隔天早上穿上印着“仇外太逊了”的 T 恤
with "guv" on my hat
戴着标有“长官”的帽子
and walked onto the set.
就这样走到现场
I bought and paid for the T-shirt.
我花钱买了那件 T 恤
And I put mine on and went to walk out the trailer door
我穿上并走出拖车
and who's the first one to see me? Ridley.
第一个看到我的是谁？雷德利
And he had his T-shirt on, the "Xenophobia Sucks" so it was a standoff.
他穿着他的 T 恤，上面写：“仇外太逊了”
But it helped release some tension.
确实帮助缓解了些紧张的氛围
And I said, "Right. Morning, Harrison. We're gonna do this."
我说：“好了，早安，哈里森。今天我们搞这个”
And it was this-- And there's all these people standing there in their shirts, which I completely ignored.
然后…… 这些人穿着他们的 T 恤站在那里，我完全忽视他们
I didn't say a word about it.
我一句话也没说
And they ignored me.
他们也没理我
We got on with the first scene and we're all just wearing this ridiculous gear.
我们拍第一幕，我们全都穿着这可笑的衣服
And about midmorning, those T-shirts started to disappear.
大约上午十点左右，那些 T 恤就开始消失了
By lunchtime, it was all gone.
到午餐时间，全部不见了
These were guys-- You know, they're all one's friends.
这些家伙，他们都很努力
You know, I couldn't think of a crew member that wasn't doing his absolute best.
我想，没有哪个剧组人员没能尽职尽责
But suddenly this story spread around like wildfire.
但突然间他的故事像野火般散布
And just-- They all decided, you know, they'd had enough.
他们都决定，他们受够了
Ridley was, you know, kind of stern a lot.
雷德利的确是有点太严厉了
But for me, being a new guy at it, I didn't care about any of that.
但对我来说，身为一个新人，我不在乎这些事
I just, like-- So happy that I had a chance to work with him.
我只是很高兴我有机会和他工作
I never got involved in any-- I wouldn't have worn a T-shirt.
我从不插手任何……我不会穿那些 T 恤
I would've been too embarrassed
我会难为情
because I thought it was, like, stupid you know
因为我觉得很蠢
to display that kind of behavior.
那种行为很蠢
And it just slowed things down.
而且只会让进度慢下来
You get all sorts of talking behind the scenes, and--
你在后台会听到各种说法
"Here's this foreign director. Who the hell does he think he is?"
“这个外国导演，他到底以为他是谁？”
You know, "These limeys are over here," and this, that and the other.
“这些英国佬在这里，”还有些有的没的
They were tired and you could see that they didn't feel appreciated.
他们很累，你看得出他们不觉得受重视
You know, I would say to Ridley: "Go talk to these people, for God's sakes.
我会对雷德利说：“看在老天的分上，去和这些人说话
Tell them how great they're doing.
告诉他们他们做的有多棒
Because, you know, everyone is devoted to you but
因为每个人都为了你专心致力于工作，但
they're devoted through fear."
他们的专注源于恐惧”
The only way you knew if you were working
你要知道你是否还在这工作的唯一方式
was if you got a call sheet and your name was still on it.
就是拿到一张通告单，而你的名字仍然在上
Because people just, all the time, disappeared.
因为一直以来都这样，有些人就……消失了
On the property-room door, there was a list of people
道具室的门上，有一张人员表
who had said they'd had enough, and they quit.
上面说他们受够了，他们要辞职
And we kept a roster of everybody who quit the film.
我们有一份辞职的人员表
It can be tough on a set, and it can be long hours.
现场很辛苦，拍摄时间很长
肖恩·杨，瑞秋饰演者
And I remember some pretty long hours on that show.
我记得拍摄时间相当久
So what? I'm sorry, but, you know, sometimes our work is grueling.
那又怎样？我很抱歉，但是有时候我们的工作很累
鲁特格尔·哈尔，罗伊·巴蒂饰演者
And I don't think PR is there for-- You know, to whine about, you know
我不认为公关人员是让工作人员发牢骚用的
"lt destroyed my life and it was so grueling."
“这毁了我的生活，好累啊”
It was a tough shoot.
这是艰难的拍摄
We were doing something very special.
我们在做非常特别的事
To most of the crew, this was just a job.
对大部分的工作人员来说，这只是工作
To a few of us, this was special.
对我们少数人来说，这很特别
劳伦斯·G·波尔，美术设计
This was really-- It was magic time.
这真的是……这是魔法时间
There was tension from time to time
有时候情势紧张
哈里森·福特，德卡饰演者
and there were times when there wasn't.
有时候没有
And I think every big, ambitious movie has tension involved.
我觉得每部大电影都掺杂了紧张感
Eventually, we shot that sequence on the backlot of Warner Bros
最后，我们在华纳兄弟的露天片场拍摄那组镜头
with a jump from one building to the other in the building
从一栋大楼跳到另一栋
that we could move around and position the way we wanted, you know?
在大楼里我们可以照我们想要的方式四处移动
I'd laid out the distance of the building
我测量了大楼间的距离
and I'd jumped it on the ground many, many times, and it was fine.
我地上试着跳了许多次，感觉还不错
And I'd put a rope on the other side that was blended into the building where you couldn't see
我在另一边放了绳子，颜色和大楼相称，你看不到
where I could get ahold of the rope and hang on to it.
我可以在那里抓住绳子挂着
And then we got all ready to do it.
然后我们都准备好拍了
Again, it was at night and it was smoking, and it was raining, and it was a mess.
又是在晚上，有烟雾，又下雨，一团混乱
They kept coming up to me with this Hudson spray gun.
他们拿着哈德森喷枪一直来喷我
They kept spraying me with this thing, and trying to make it look wet.
他们一直用这东西喷我，试着让它看起来湿湿的
这里“它”应该指的是大衣
Well, it'd just suck it in, and it wouldn't look wet.
它只是一个劲吸水，但还是看起来不湿
The guy'd come back and wet me again.
这家伙又回来把我弄湿
And Ridley said, "Make him look wet."
雷德利说：“让他看起来湿湿的”
Well, finally, I run him off.
最后，我阻止他
I said, "Quit it, this thing weighs 50 pounds."
我说：“住手，这东西重达 20 公斤”
You know, I mean, it just weighted me down.
这让我加重很多
So come time to do the jump, and I made a long run and made the jump.
所以到了跳的时候，我有一段长跑然后才跳
And I was about halfway and I could see I wasn't gonna make it, you know?
我跑到一半就知道我不会成功
And the best thing I could do I threw out my arm and I hooked one of these rafters.
我能做的事情就是，我挥出手臂，钩住屋缘
Under my arm. And that kept me on the building.
用手臂撑住，让我支撑在大楼上
They liked it so well, they wanted me to do it two or three more times.
他们很喜欢，他们要我再做二、三次
So every time, I'd have to hook my arm.
所以每次我都得钩住我的手臂
I had a big bruise under my arm, but, you know, we made the jump.
我的手臂下有一块大瘀青，但是我们完成了跳跃
I had a great rapport with stunt guys, because of this-- You know
我和特技演员有密切关系
because I ride horses, I fence, I do some martial arts and that sort of stuff.
因为我骑马、击剑，我练一些武术和那类的东西
And I always watch them.
我总是看着他们
See how they prepare, watch what they do.
看他们怎么练，看他们做什么
It might have been 30 feet from the floor to the top.
从地面到屋顶可能有 10 米
So we had an air bag at the bottom so if you didn't make it--
所以我们在底部放气垫，以防你没成功……
And if I remember correctly, the guy that doubled Rutger, he--
如果我记得没错，这家伙是鲁特格尔的替身
The first jump he made, he didn't make it.
他的第一跳并没有成功
He hit, bounced off and went to the air bag.
他撞到墙上，弹下，掉到气垫上
Another stunt guy comes in.
另一个特技演员进来
He does the same thing.
发生了同样的事情
And now we're at 5:00 in the morning.
现在我们是早上 5 点
We haven't got an hour.
我们有不到一小时的时间
And I'm saying to Ridley, "Ridley, if you put the building--" And the building was on wheels.
我对雷德利说：“雷德利，如果你把这栋大楼……这栋大楼是有轮子的
"--if you give me a foot closer
如果你能把距离再拉近 30 公分
I swear, you know, it's not a problem for me. I can do this."
我发誓，这绝对不是问题，我做得到”
And he's desperate by now, so he goes, "Okay, let's do it."
他到现在很绝望了，所以他说：“好，我们来做”
And then, you know, we did one take, and I jumped.
然后我们拍了一次，我跳了
Rutger just did this one big, bargy hop.
鲁特格尔就完成了这个大跳跃
He went: With a dove in his hand.
他完成了，手上有一只鸽子
He came to me and said, "l thought a symbol of peace. Is this okay?"
他来找我说：“我想到和平的象征，这个可以吗？”
And I'm going, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go on, will you?
我说：“好，好，好，继续，好吗？
The light's getting blue."
天开始变蓝了”
What if I take a dove with me, and then when I die
如果我带一只鸽子在身边，然后当我死去时
I just hold on to the dove for the last bits?
我握住鸽子到最后一刻，这样如何？
And then when I die, I just let it go, and that's it.
然后当我死时，就这样我放它走，就这样
You know: End of story.
故事结束
And then the dove can act for me.
然后鸽子可以替我表演
And he said, "Well, interesting.
他说：“很有趣
But let's shoot it two ways."
但让我们用两种方式拍摄”
That was sort of the visual part of, you know, death.
那是死亡的视觉部分
There was a real page of opera talk
真的有一页歌剧谈话
that, you know, is bad in any script, I don't care how you look at it.
在任何脚本里都会很差，我不在乎你怎么看
And this was high-tech speak
这是高逼格的演讲
that had very little bearing on anything you know, that the movie had shown you before.
和你在之前电影里看到的任何事都没有什么关联
So I just put a knife in it.
所以我只是稍加修剪
And I-- And I did this at night, and I didn't know if Ridley was okay with it.
我在晚上做的，我不知道雷德利是否觉得可以
复制
性
爱
简单的事情
但无法满足他们
想家却无处可去
很多疏忽
Like most actors aware that, you know
像大部分演员察觉到一样
this is his death scene coming up
要拍他死亡的这一幕了
this is his kind of moment.
这是他的时候
And they suddenly start getting pretty tenacious
他们突然开始相当坚持
about their-- What they wanna shoot and have covered.
他们想拍的，以及隐藏的东西
And I think he was-- You know, he was quite demanding at that time of Ridley.
我想他是……当时他相当苛求雷德利
I came up with, you know, two lines
我想出两句台词
that had some sort of off-worldly feel to it
有某种脱离世俗的感觉
and some poetry in it.
和一些诗意
And then I came up with a line at 4:00 in the morning:
然后我早上 4 点准备好台词
"All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain."
“那些时刻会消失在时间里，像眼泪消失在雨里一样”
And I brought it to the set and really liked it.
我带到现场，真的很喜欢
Rutger is big and bold and interesting as an actor.
鲁特格尔身为一名演员，高大、勇敢又有趣
It was-- I had a great time working with him.
我和他工作得很愉快
Some of the scenes we had together are some of the most satisfying professional moments I've ever had.
有些我们一起拍的场景是我有过最满意的专业时刻之一
And I think that the two characters depend on each other in a dramatic sense.
我觉得这两个角色在戏中，非常戏剧般地依靠彼此
So I was very grateful to have his capacity
所以我很感激可以和他的能力
and his strength and his focus to work with.
和他的力量和专注力合作
When Roy Batty finally finds his four-year lifespan is up
当罗伊·巴蒂终于发现他的四年生命走到尽头
and he dies with this wonderful dove in his lap
他死了，他膝上有只很棒的鸽子
and the dove starts to fly away.
鸽子开始飞远
And up to this moment in the film
到电影的这时刻之前
it's been, you know a metropolis that's constantly overcast and raining and dark and gloomy.
一直都是一个持续阴雨的黑暗都市
And all of a sudden you do a shot
突然间你有这样一个镜头
where you see the dove flying up into a clear blue sky.
你看到鸽子飞入清澄的蓝空
Which is a daylight shot
这是白天的镜头
and there are just some clouds of steam around and stuff like that.
只有一些云和水汽之类的东西
And people noticed that, I remember, immediately even when the film first came out.
我记得人们马上就注意到了，甚至是电影刚上映时也是
This was a matter of something that had happened during the filming.
这是关于拍摄中发生的事情
The dove that they had got wet-- Because of all this constant rain.
他们拿来的鸽子弄湿了，因为这持续的雨
--and when he was releasing it to let it go, the dove was so wet it couldn't fly.
当他松手让它飞时，鸽子湿得飞不动
So instead of, like, flying up off of Rutger's lap into the sky and then following it up
所以其实并不是离开鲁特格尔的膝上飞入空中
the dove literally just hopped out of his lap and waddled across the roof, out of the frame.
而是鸽子跳离他的膝上，蹒跚越过屋顶，离开画面
So they weren't able to use that.
所以他们不能用那个镜头
The last two days were actually a nightmare because we had only two days.
最后两天真的是一场恶梦，因为我们只有两天
They were definitely cutting off the money.
他们就要切断金钱供应了
And we wouldn't be able to shoot beyond that.
之后就无法再拍摄了
And we still had rather a lot of work to do.
而我们还有很多工作要做
The last day of shooting was 27 or 28 hours.
拍摄的最后一天，大约是 27 或 28 小时
迪克·哈特，灯光师
We must have gone to work at 5 in the afternoon or something like that.
我们应该是下午 5 点开始工作
4 or 5 in the afternoon.
下午四或五点
And we shot all night, and of course, you know, everybody thought:
我们整夜拍摄，当然，每个人都在想
"Well, we'll finish when the light comes up
“太阳升起时，我们就会结束了
because you can't shoot anymore."
因为你再也不能拍了”
We were really, really dying.
我们真的真的快要死掉一样
We were absolutely in the water here.
我们绝对是浸在水中
Swimming with the sharks around us.
我们四周有鲨鱼在游泳
And I knew by then, it'd be now
我那时候知道天快亮了
April, May, June I've got dawn coming in at 5, 4:45.
四月、五月、六月，早晨 5 点或 4 点 45 分日出
So it's gonna go blue. It's going blue.
所以天会变成蓝色，正要转成蓝色
In fact, there's beautiful light, because it is blue.
事实上，光还挺漂亮的，因为是蓝的
That's dawn.
那是清晨
When the sun came up, the suits were all standing off to the side there was like four guys in suits.
当太阳出现，工作人员都避到一边，好像有四个人吧
So the sun came up, and they were all smiling and all that.
所以太阳出现时，他们全笑了
"Oh, this is great." You know, "We can pull the plug now."
“哦，这很棒，我们现在可以停工了”
And then, so Ridley said: "I'm not finished yet," because the death scene was incomplete.
然后雷德利说：“我还没完成。”因为死亡这一幕尚未完成
So Michael Deeley came over to me and said:
所以迈克尔·迪利来找我说
"Listen," you know, "we gotta keep going."
“听着，我们得继续拍下去”
And so, what we decided to do was literally take chainsaws and Sawzalls
所以我们决定做的是拿起锯子
and literally cut the set out of the street and put it on vehicles and forklifts
把这场景切离街道，放在升降机上
and move that set piece with the rooftop down to the stage.
把这个布景连着屋顶搬进舞台内
I've read reports about that they rolled the Bradbury set down to the stage.
我看过关于这件事的报告，他们把布莱德柏利大楼布景搬进舞台
I only wish that would have been true.
我只希望这是真的
That wouldn't have been so tough.
因为这样就不会那么棘手
Everybody was just beat.
大家都筋疲力尽
And we still had all the wet, all the dirt, all the smoke, everything going on.
我们仍然还要满身湿透、满身尘土、满是烟雾地继续拍
And when we finally cut on the last shot, it was--
当我们终于拍完最后一个镜头时
From top to bottom, it was, "Let's get out of here."
大家都是：“我们赶紧离开这里吧”的样子
And everybody walked away.
大家都走了
For the first time in weeks my excellent Scottie dog and I drove home in daylight
好几个星期以来，我第一次和我的狗在白天开车回家
thinking the whole nightmare was over.
心想着整个恶梦终于结束了
But we were not aware of what was lurking in our mailboxes next day.
但是我们不知道隔天会有东西在我们的信箱里
Which was a communication from the lawyers
这是律师的讯息
representing Perenchio and Yorkin invoking their right
代表杰里·佩伦乔和巴德·约金行使他们的权利
since we were 10 percent over budget to discharge us from the picture.
因为我们超出预算 10%，所以要解雇我们
In fact, it was funny, I didn't know why they did that.
事实上，这很好笑，我不知道他们为什么这么做
I know they had the right to, and I think it was done out of pique.
我知道他们有权利去做，我想这是因为他们很生气
I think Perenchio was so cross with us
我想佩伦乔对我们这么生气
because he'd had to pay up on his guarantee of completion--
是因为他担保完成
For which he was being paid a million and a half.
所以必须付钱，为此他已经花了一百五十万
--that he wanted to punish us.
他想处罚我们
We went over budget, needless to say.
我们重新查看预算
It was-- Went quite a bit over budget.
不必说，是……超出预算蛮多的
And it was just one of those things that happens in motion pictures in particular.
这在拍电影时常常发生
And one that was as difficult as this was to make.
这部片子又很难制作
And a big part of that was the cost of special effects.
大部分是特效的花费
And also the fact that Ridley was taking-- He'd do 30 takes of something.
雷德利也拍了……他会拍 30 个镜头之类的
When they wanted to remove Ridley from the film, I said:
当他们想将雷德利从这部电影中除掉时，我说
"Wait a minute. No. There's no way.
“等一下，不，不可能
I mean, he's gotta finish this film, because we bought a Ridley Scott film.
他得完成这部影片，因为我们买的是雷德利·斯科特电影
We'll persevere and take down the budget as best we can."
我们会坚持下去，并尽可能节省预算”
And we had meetings about special-effects shots did we need this one or that one?
我们开会讨论特效镜头，我们需要这个或那个吗？
And Ridley, quite frankly, didn't get all the stuff that he wanted, you know?
坦白说，雷德利没得到所有他想要的东西
Quite honestly, what happened was we had the right to edit the film.
老实说，发生的事情是，我们有权剪辑电影
And there were things that I wanted to take out.
有东西我想拿掉
And not only me, but other people that were involved.
不只是我，还有其他参与的人
And the picture was running very long at that time.
当时影片非常长
And that became very difficult for us, because--
我们变得很难做，因为
I remember Jerry Perenchio coming in and saying:
我记得杰里·佩伦乔走进来说
"Now we can put this film exactly how we want it."
“现在我们可以把这影片弄成我们想要的样子了”
And I said, "Well, that won't be too easy
我说：“那不会太容易
because everything has been broken down because I'm working with the sound crews at the ti--"
一切都零零散散，因为当时我和音效人员还在作业……”
特里·罗林斯，剪辑监督
Which it hadn't, but l'd-- We're trying to sort of tap-dance around this situation
但是其实没有，我们试着在拖延时间
because I knew that Ridley would come back.
因为我知道雷德利会回来
It's just-- You don't fire a director unless he's really done some horrible thing.
你不能解雇导演，除非他真的做了很可怕的事
Didn't have the slightest effect.
一点影响都没有
I mean, the job continued to be done.
工作继续完成
So Ridley was on the picture all the way through and nobody went anywhere.
所以雷德利又回来了，没有人离开
There's a lot of forgiveness in it all.
这其中有很多宽恕
And over a period of time, you just realize that
经过一段时间，你就了解
you are doing something that is so different, so special so unique.
你在做的事这么不同，这么特别，这么独一无二
You've done a man's job, sir.
先生，你做了男子汉的工作
But are you sure you are a man?
但是你确定你是男子汉（人类）吗？
I think everyone who worked on that film
我想每个为那部片工作的人
when they realized what had been accomplished
当他们了解到完成什么样的成果时
was extremely proud that they were involved.
会很骄傲他们有参与
大卫·德赖尔，特效摄影总监
And all of those skirmishes that take place
所有那些发生的小冲突
to the point of making it better
是导向更好的一端
not just getting on people for ego's sake.
而不是只为了自己着想
I don't really think Ridley does that.
我其实不认为是雷德利的错
He doesn't deal directly with you.
他不直接针对人
He deals with, what's gonna be the best damn thing we can put on the screen?
他针对的是，我们怎样才能把最佳的东西放上银幕？
The fact of it is that in our going over budget
事实上我们重新察看预算时
at least it can be said that the money was-- Is on the screen.
至少可以说钱都花在大银幕上
No doubt.
毫无疑问
It's not the usual thing of just mis-planning.
这不是一般计划错误的事
It's just that it's up there.
它就是这样发生了
特殊视效
镜头之外
I look at Blade Runner as the last analog science-fiction movie made
我认为 银翼杀手 是最后一部非数字化的科幻片
大卫·L·斯奈德，美术指导
because we didn't have the advantages people have now.
因为我们没有现在的优势
And l' m glad we didn't
我很高兴我们没有那些工具
because there's nothing artificial about it.
因为电影里没有一点人工气息
There's no computer-generated images in the film.
本片完全没有使用计算机绘图
The things that pervaded us during the whole production was
我们在制作本片时的想法是
道格拉斯·川柏，特效摄影总监
"How do we pull rabbits out of hats? Do more for less?"
“我们怎样才能事半功倍，从帽子里拉出兔子来？”
I always remember them coming off, going: "Wow."
我记得他们说：“哇”
They nearly got me involved in special effects in a big way.
他们简直让我从头使用特效到尾
It was plain, old-fashioned filmmaking
那是普通的老式电影拍摄方法
大卫·德赖尔，特效摄影总监
with C-stands and gaffer's tape
用脚架跟黑色胶带
and running the big 65 mm cameras.
及 65 毫米大型摄影机拍摄
In retrospect, this is probably one of the last great in-camera special-effects movies ever done.
回想起来，这或许是最后一部用摄影机拍摄特效的经典
史帝芬·戴恩，助理美术指导
In the late '70s, there was kind of a resurgence.
在 70 年代后期，这股风潮再度兴起
As far as visual effects went, it was like a rebirth
就特效方面，这像是重生
because there was a large void the decade and a half before.
因为十五年来是一片空白
理查德·尤里西奇，特效摄影总监
There were effects in films but there wasn't enough infrastructure to do
以前电影有特效，但基础结构不足以
a film like Star Wars or Close Encounters.
拍摄 星球大战 或 第三类接触
The ground was changing, you know.
情况变了
Suddenly, we had motion-control cameras
突然间我们有动作控制摄影机
and suddenly, computers had reared their head.
突然间计算机成了万能的工具
But as we were doing Blade Runner
但拍摄 银翼杀手 的时候
I did have personal connection with Dougie Trumbull and Richard Yuricich.
我个人跟道格拉斯·川柏及理查德·尤里西奇有私交
艾弗·鲍威尔，副制片人
And I know I had a part in persuading Richard, you know, to do the movie.
我知道我帮忙说服理查德参与本片拍摄工作
It was a very small film at the time.
当时那只是一部小成本电影
It was about $2 million, and it was about 50 or 56 shots.
预算约 200 万，有 50 到 56 场戏
They had based it on doing a like number of shots to Alien
他们以 异形 拍摄的镜头数目做为基础
which really wasn't enough for this film.
那对本片来说是不够的
And the more Ridley got into it, the grander his vision, I think, expanded.
我想，雷德利越投入，他的野心越来越大
Once they saw what could be done
一旦他们了解到本片的潜力
and some of the demonstrations of the fine work that was there
发现他们拍出来的成绩不错
of course it would be any kid's desire, or any good director's desire
当然那是孩子们的梦想，或是好导演的梦想
罗科·焦弗雷，背景绘图师
to just do more of the same, to actually say:
为了要做到，为了要说
"Wow, if we can do this, then we can also do this."
“如果我们能这么做，那么我们也能那么做”
So there was always the business part of it barking at our heels:
我们老是得考虑到商业利益
"Well, how much can we spend? How much time do we have?"
“我们花了多少钱？我们有多少时间？”
But little by little, we got onboard.
一点一滴的我们上了轨道
It's not like, "Spend all the money you guys have
不是“你们要花多少钱都可以
and make it look as good as you can."
尽量将电影拍好”
It was like, "Do more with very little money and very little time."
而是：“用最少的时间跟金钱，多做一些事”
And that was kind of fun.
那真的很有趣
Part of what worked for Blade Runner was the fact that
银翼杀手 的成功
we were all stupid and didn't know much
部分归对于我们有股傻劲，我们知道的事情不多
so we had to figure it out ourselves.
所以得自己摸索
Some of the choices we made then l would never make now
当时我们做的一些选择，现在我不会那么做
马克·斯泰特森，首席模型师
although they're good choices.
虽然那是很棒的选择
The thing that made our work in Blade Runner fit the movie was that
银翼杀手 的成功
we worked to the concept.
在于我们一切都从概念出发
And you never design a visual-effects shot to have the audience go:
我们从不设计视效镜头只为了让观众说
"Oh, wow, what a neat visual-effects shot. What a great design."
“好酷的视效镜头，好棒的设计”
It always has to tell the story.
每个镜头都要能说出故事
And fortunately, in the case of Blade Runner
还好在 银翼杀手 里
one of the protagonists was the city, was the environment.
主角之一是市容跟环境
People had to live in this very oppressive environment
人们得活在这个非常压抑的环境
and that is one of the key characters in the story.
那是故事的关键
The good thing is that there was pollution as part of the story.
好事是故事里提到了污染
Pollution's not good
污染是件坏事
but there was gonna be lots of aerial perspective and haze
但会有很多的鸟瞰跟模糊的镜头
and that was all part of the scene.
那是戏里的重点
So the Hades landscape is what's called a forced-perspective miniature.
地狱景观是所谓的强制透视模型
You have larger little miniature elements in the foreground
前景是比较大的模型
smaller ones, smaller ones and smaller ones going all the way to the horizon.
小一点的模型在后，越后面的越小
And from the camera to what appears to be the horizon is only about 15 feet.
从摄影机到所谓的地平线只有大约 5 米
And it's just a plywood table that's
那是个三夹板桌子
about 20 feet wide at the back but only about 5 feet wide at the front
后面是大概 6 米宽，前面大概是 1.5 米宽
because the field of view is looking out.
因为视野是往外看
So you don't build anything an inch outside that field of view.
所以我们不在视野外做东西
That's just wasted money and wasted time.
那是在浪费金钱和时间
So we designed it for the focal length of that camera lens.
所以一切都是基于摄影机镜头的焦距长度设计的
Mark Stetson and his crew had developed a very good system of photoetching.
马克·斯泰特森跟他的工作小组研发出很棒的光化学腐蚀系统
Basically, you would draw you would do intricate drawings
基本上你可以画出很细致的画
比尔·乔治，模型师
and that would be applied photochemically to a piece of brass
然后运用光化学作用涂在一块铜片上
and they would apply acid to it which would eat away the areas where the lines weren't.
他们在上面加酸液腐蚀掉没有线条的地方
And so you get this really fine filigree detail that really, really was nice.
你可以看到非常棒的细线部分
And all those spires
那些螺旋形
you just draw kind of a side view of all those
你从侧面来画
and then you can replicate hundreds and thousands of them
然后大量复制
very, very easily with the etched brass.
用蚀刻板很容易做
Even though the acid-etched brass components are two-dimensional flat cutouts
尽管酸蚀铜板技术是平面的设计，只能做出平面效果
if you put enough of them together you kind of imbue
但是如果数量够多的话
it with more three-dimensionality than is really there.
你可以做出逼真的立体空间感
I like to get in there
我喜欢到那里去
because I like to see what the lighting was.
因为我喜欢去看灯光的感觉
And I pushed hard for smoke.
我会加很多的烟
When you're shooting things that are only 10 feet away from you
如果你想拍摄离你只有三米远的东西
and it has to look like it's two or three miles
但在画面看起来必须有三、五公里远时
the only way to build up the sense of aerial perspective
唯一的方法是建立起透视感
at that time was to fill the miniature room full of smoke
那时的办法是让模型间充满烟雾
and create things blurring off
创造出一些东西，把它们弄得面目模糊
and graying off into the distance.
看起来灰蒙蒙地，制造出距离感
It had to be in the camera
那一定得在镜头前完成
and that's where Doug came in and again put his brain to it, saying
那是道格的工作，他绞尽了脑汁后说
"l know what to do."
“我知道该怎么做了”
Again, he went off and did a lash-up with fans, electric fans, smoke detectors.
他想岀应急的办法，用电风扇跟烟雾侦测器
And we absolutely tented in the area with black drapes and then plastic so we contained it.
我们在现场拉起黑布跟塑料布来控制范围
And then the smoke detector would sense that
烟雾侦测器会侦测到
the smoke was dropping in the room would trigger a puffers
房间里的烟雾浓度下降时，会触动喷雾口
which puffed smoke into the room maintain the level in the room.
将烟雾喷进屋里，保持房间里烟雾的浓度
Because if you're only doing frame-by-frame animation which is what we were
因为我们只能一格格拍动画
then you're gonna get flicker
我们得来回不断拍摄
because the smoke's gonna vary.
因为烟雾的状况一直变化
It's gonna flutter.
有时会飘散开
And there was no flutter.
有时又停滞不动
If two towers were only three inches apart but there was a lot of smoke in there
如果两座塔只有 10 厘米远，之间却有很多烟雾
they would separate from each other.
感觉起来会离很远
One would be a little more crisp
一个看起来比较清楚
and the one behind it would be darker
后的比较暗
and the lights on the one behind would create an edge
后高塔的灯光会营造出一种感觉
and it would just take on this huge amount of scale.
看起来尺寸会变大
And there's kind of a magical point
那真的很神奇
where the smoke density gets to be so dense that the horizon almost disappears.
烟雾变得非常浓时地平线会几乎消失不见
That's kind of where you get to the magic point.
那就是神奇的地方
Where you suddenly get all the separation between these little cutout layers.
突然间模型层次差得非常远
I just had this scheme.
我计划这么做
I just wanted to do it as a series of silhouettes in smoke.
我希望把它拍成烟雾中的剪影
And I wanted the smoke to really be the light, and the light to light it up.
我希望烟雾飘到灯旁边，灯光将它打亮
Everything about that miniature had to be lights.
模型的重点在于灯光
I think it was 20,000 fiber-optic light tubes coming up into all of these points.
我想那是 2 万根光纤亮管，分布在这些点里
And in the foreground, we had some towers that were about this big.
前景的塔楼有这么大
And we set them in there
我们将它们放在那里
and set little interactive lights on them
装上互动灯光
because nothing exists in space without reflection and light affected by everything else.
因为所有东西都会有倒影，光线会受到物品的影响
And that really started to bring it to life.
那为它带来生气
It still looked pretty crazy to look at but I don't know.
现在看起来还是觉得很疯狂，但我不知道
Like I said, we were stupid back then.
我说过，当时我们很傻
And it worked.
不过我们成功了
One of the things about the Hades landscape is that
地狱景观的问题之一
it is almost totally abstract and
在于它非常抽象
so you don't have a lot of cues to tell you how big it's really supposed to be.
你对它到底有多大几乎没什么概念
And we had this idea that there would be these kind of smokestacks.
我们认为得多多利用烟雾
You know, like venting a burning-flame gas off of some cracking plant or something.
像是工厂大量的将烟排出
And that was one of the elements that really added a lot of scale
那样的方法能将空间感扩大
and a lot of excitement to that miniature.
为模型带来生气
Doug had previously shot these huge explosions of flammable material.
道格已经用易燃物品拍完大型爆破戏
Big fireballs.
大火球
And he had those on 35 mm.
他用 35 毫米摄影机拍
We took those and put little white cards in back of the tower
我们利用那些并在塔后面放白纸板
and literally just projected with a 35 camera
用 35 毫米摄影机做投影
and then re-photographed with our 65 camera
再用 65 毫米摄影机拍一次
that explosion in place, in situ.
拍出现场的爆破感
So for every explosion, that's another exposure through the camera.
每次爆炸，对镜头来讲都是一次曝光
So the camera has to do that shot over and over and over
摄影机得一再拍摄那个镜头
and they're all in-camera superimposures onto one piece of film.
在镜头前将画叠到另一个画面上
That opening shot, I think, had 17 passes.
我想开场镜头就拍了 17 次
So they ran it, stopped, wound it back, ran it again, wound it back.
他们拍好后，停下来，放到后面再拍，再放到后面
Very tricky work.
非常复杂的过程
If you make one mistake, you have to start over.
一犯错就得重新再来
And that's where guys like Dave come in and make that magic happen.
这时，得靠像大卫这些人来再显神迹
It was a very different time for visual effects.
对视效来说那真的很辛苦
It was all optical composites, and quality was a major concern.
影像合成跟质量是关键
When you re-photograph something like you would in a still photo--
好像你在拍平面照片一样，拍摄一个镜头
If you have a negative and you take a snapshot--
有一张底片，如果你翻拍
If you take a snapshot-- A new negative of that snapshot
如果你翻拍那张底片
which is what you're doing in opticals
就像进行光学测验一样
you'll notice that there's a little loss in quality.
你会注意到新的底片影像质量会变差
It's called one generation away.
那叫做退化
Back then, every time you did an optical composite, it lost quality.
那时每次做影像合成，品质都会变差
And at EEG, they used 70 mm film to shoot the elements.
EEG, Entertainment Effects Group，特效公司 所有者为道格拉斯·川柏，负责为 银翼杀手 制作特效
在 EEG，他们用 70 毫米摄影机来拍摄
So when you degrade that optical
当你让影像退化
when you add imagery together on a large format
把画面放大之后再重叠上去
you do lose quality.
品质会变差
But if you start with a large format
但是如果你一开始就放大
that quality cuts more easily with the original.
质量跟原始画面就不会差很多
And many times, instead of doing it as an optical composite
我们通常不做影像合成
we would do multiple exposures.
而是多重曝光
Which was risky
那么做很危险
because you'd shoot one pass roll the film back
因为你拍完一次后，得卷好底片
shoot another pass, roll the film back
再拍一次，再把底片卷好
and I remember a couple times, they'd open up the camera and there'd be nothing but shredded film inside.
我记得好几次，我打开摄影机时，发现底片都卷成一团了
You know, recently finished Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
那时 第三类接触 刚拍完
Blade Runner was the beneficiary of having all that equipment already in place.
银翼杀手 因为设备齐全而受惠
All the lenses, the cameras, the motion control.
镜头、摄影机跟动作控制
It all had been worked out.
效果非常好
We were working with tools, by today's comparison, that were very crude.
我们用来工作的工具，以现在的标准来看，很原始
Just to program a move, sometimes, would take all day long
有时候为了设计一动作得花掉我们一整天的时间
because it was done with a system almost the same as Etch A Sketch.
因为它使用的系统跟旋转绘图板很像
You'd sort of mark a trajectory and then mark another one and mark another one
你得画好几道轨迹，一道又一道
and then run a motion test with black-and-white reversal film--
然后一般用黑白负片做动作测试
No such thing as a computer video at that point.
那时没有计算机摄影机
--and then process it, look at it and go
做好处理，看过后说
"Well, that was all wrong. What were we thinking?"
“那不对，我们在想什么？”
And go back and...
然后从头再来一次
You know, and after a while, it became clear to me
过了一阵子我便明白
that we had to previs in our heads.
我们得预先设想好
We had learned to work that way with Doug
我们学习跟道格用那种方法来做
because of his use of the smoke room and how much that obliterated detail.
因为他利用烟雾室，细节变得很的模糊
But it was so totally dependent on light
但是也要靠灯光
that miniatures really became, like, substrates for light.
模型成了灯光的基础
Dave Dryer, when he came onboard, had the same philosophy.
大卫·德赖尔加入，他的准则也一样
He said, you know, "If there's a problem, solve it with light."
他说：“如果有问题的话，用灯光来解决”
There's a joke. I'll start with the joke.
有个玩笑，我要用笑话开头
If it doesn't work, try...
如果不行，试着
Crop it, flop it or drop it.
拿起来、翻过来或丢下去
If none of those work, add a flare.
通通不行的话加个光斑
That's just a joke, but the flares--
那只是笑话，但是光斑
A lens flare is something that's exists in the lens.
光斑是存在镜头里的亮点
It's in nature.
它自然存在的
Well, it's something you can't make, you don't draw.
那是无法制造或消掉的东西
It happens in the lens.
那就是存在于镜头里
And every camera lens has its own characteristics
每种摄影机镜头都有自己的特色
but when you overexpose this source of light like about 10 f-stops
但过度曝光时，光源大约有十级光圈值
that's when the flaring starts to happen.
那时光斑就出现了
When light starts bouncing around inside the glass of the lens.
光线开始在镜头玻璃里跳动
We just focused on that.
我们以它为焦点
And, of course, it adds that element of truth, realness, credibility to some of the imagery.
当然它让画面看起来更有真实感
Of course, one of the challenges of this show was
当然本片的挑战之一
it was very different than, like, let's say Star Wars
是跟，比如 星球大战 非常不同的
where everything was kind of a matte-finish surface.
星球大战 里的物体表面看起来都暗暗的
The spinner is just completely glossy, like a car
未来车表面很光滑，跟一般车子一样
which means you have reflection problems
那表示会有反射问题
and, technically, for visual effects, a lot of problems pulling mattes.
对视效来说，技术上要除掉光滑感很难
It had a bunch of lights on it that were great.
打一大堆光是件好事
That were wonderful.
那真的很棒
And we start shooting it, and we start putting it against backgrounds just as tests.
我们开始拍摄，将它放在背景前，只是为了做试验
We weren't-- Not necessarily even the backgrounds that it would go against.
我们不一定会让背景有平衡感
And it just looked like a big hunk of junk just hanging up there in space.
让那看起来像是堆在那里的垃圾
There was no magic to it.
完全没有什么魔力可言
So I asked the guys in the Engineering Department:
我问工程部的人
"What's the brightest fiber optic?"
“最亮的光纤光源长什么样？”
"We got this xenon thing, and it'll just blow your lens away."
“我们有氙气的这种，可以亮瞎你的镜头”
We ran that huge fiber optic right up to the top of the spinner
我们在未来车上方绑了这种超亮光纤
and at the end of every pass we'd make a long pass with that bright light there.
每次拍摄完毕，我们都会用超亮光纤再拍一次
And as soon as we put that light in there, it just...blew everything away.
将光纤绑上去后，所有的东西都被照亮了
It solved the technical problems
那解决了科技问题
but more importantly that thing became magical.
但更重要的是画面看起来很神奇
Well, the Tyrell pyramid
泰瑞金字塔
the base of it was about 8 feet square at the base
底部约 2.5 米见方
tapering up to an opening that was about maybe 2 and a half feet wide at the top.
加上一个出入口，上面宽约 80 公分
We knew that we were making a mega-structure
我知道我们在做一座大型建筑物
to represent something as big as a city.
代表一整个城市那么大的空间
And we thought, "Well, let's light it single-source, like a big light box."
我们想：“我们得用单一光源照亮，让它看起来像是大型灯箱”
And so it was decided to construct it out of clear Plexiglas.
我们决定用透明树脂玻璃来做
The detailing that was put on the outside was also cast in clear
细节是外壳必须是透朗的
so basically, you had a big light box.
基本上你会有个大灯箱
And then we sealed it with paint
我们给它上漆
and scraped off the paint where we wanted the windows to come through.
在窗户的位置将漆刮掉
We only built that one pyramid with only two sides on it.
我们只做出金字塔的两面
So you had the front side and one side.
正面跟侧面
And then we would flip it around and shoot it again
我们将它转过来再拍一次
so it would seem to be two pyramids
看起来像两个金字塔
but it was really only half of one pyramid.
事实上只是半个金字塔
And we backed it up with ribbing where we could
我们尽量多上肋架做支撑
but we wanted to keep it as open as possible on the inside
但我们也希望里面尽量地空
so that we could light it with a big bare-bulb 10K in the middle of it-- 10,000 watts of light.
才能在中间用 10K 的灯泡来做照明，就是一万瓦的灯泡
--which, altogether, it generated a lot of heat
点亮时会产生非常多的热量
so when it was to be shot on-stage--
在摄影棚里拍摄
In those days, motion control being a very painstakingly slow process.
以前的动作控制摄影机，使用起来很麻烦
--each shot would take hours to film.
每个镜头拍起来得花数小时
That means the lights had to be burning constantly during that time.
那表示灯光会一直散发很多的热量
And after all the required shots were done
拍完必要镜头后
we were still shooting backgrounds for cityscapes
我们会再拍摄市容背景
just for some of the wide views of the city of Los Angeles in 2019.
加一些 2019 年的洛杉矶市的广角镜头
And everybody thought it would be a great idea to turn the thing upside down
大家觉得将镜头倒过来是个好点子
and make this big cantilevered city shape
拍出庞大悬臂城市的样貌
that would be somewhat of a complement to the Tyrell pyramid.
跟泰瑞金字塔相互辉映
So we rigged it like that
我们做出那样的设计
but didn't pay very close attention to the ventilation of it
但却不是非常注意通风问题
and the thing finally caught fire during filming.
最后在拍摄时失火
And that was-- It was really ruined.
那是……真的是毁了
It wasn't as dramatic--
当时场面不是很夸张
What you heard in the model shop: "Oh, my God! It caught on fire!"
我们在模型室听到：“天啊，失火了！”
And they were filming when it happened, but it did indeed melt.
他们在拍摄时发生火灾，模型融化了
Luckily, it was toward the end of the shoot, so it wasn't that big of a disaster.
还好那时快拍完了，所以问题不大
During that early era of new visual effects people were not specialists.
新视效时代初期，大家都不是专家
So the model makers were painters the painters were model makers
模型师还兼油漆工，油漆工成了模型师
罗恩·格雷斯，首席模型油漆师
and on Blade Runner, that was the case.
在 银翼杀手 中就是如此
When you'd approach a model, you'd look at the drawing, the illustration
在处理模型的时候，你会看图画跟插画
and kind of break it down into its component shapes.
将它的形状分解开来
Sometimes it was clear that you'd have to create a piece because it was very specific
有时候很明显地你得制造出零件，因为那非常精确
and other times if you had a rectangular piece with some sort of detail on it
其他时候，如果你有块上面有点花纹的四方形零件
you'd go: "l know a model kit that has that piece in it. The Revell jet F-18."
你会说：“我知道有种模型组有这种零件，瑞维尔 F-18 喷射机”
So it was kind of figuring out your component pieces putting them together
你得知道该用哪些零件,将它们拼在一起做出模型
and constructing them in a way that looked like they belonged together.
让它们看起来像是本来就有的零件
And knowing what they had done on the set--
我们知道他们在片场做了什么
We had photographs
我们有照片
and then later in the production actually went down while they were shooting
稍后在拍摄的时候,我们会跑去看他们拍戏
and saw the sets, and once again, you see it and you go:
去看场景你看到后会说
"Oh, okay. I see. Everything's got this gritty look.
“好吧,我看到了,所有的东西都要灰扑扑的
It's dirty, it's nasty, it's leaking, it's corroded."
脏脏烂烂的、漏水的、腐蚀掉的”
And we applied all that to the miniatures as well.
我们就对模型如法炮制
We learned early on that
很早我们就知道
even though we planned to work at a certain scale on the miniatures that that really wasn't gonna work.
即使我们计划要大规模拍摄模型，那还是行不通的
What we had to do was work the same way that Ridley worked.
我们得用雷德利的方式来工作
You'd go into a large stage
你得到大型摄影棚
take the brightest light you've got
用最亮的灯
shine it back at where the camera sits
照在摄影机的位置
and then start putting stuff in front of it
开始在前面堆东西
and add lots of smoke into the room.
还让摄影棚里烟雾弥漫
And so I started posing miniature shots that way
我开始那样子拍模型镜头
and that's when it really started to happen.
效果开始出现
When you build something in miniature
做模型时
and you build it at a very small scale you have to be very careful.
东西尺寸会变得很小，你得非常小心
So they look real, so they look large and the mass and the speed that you shoot them with.
所以在你大量快速的拍摄时，它们才能看起来很真实、很大
And one of the things that first goes is the detail.
首先就是要注意细节
If your detail isn't beyond what's good as it loses resolution, it falls apart
如果细节效果不好，譬如分辨率不好，那就完了
so the paint job turns out to be the most important thing.
所以油漆是最重要的
One of the things I realized in the beginning was that
一开始我便知道
50 percent of what you do, you never see anyway
大约有五成的效果是你看不出来的
so you have to be pretty heavy-handed with it.
所以你得更加强调
So when I work with miniatures I try to make them look as visually realistic as I can
拍摄模型戏时，我会尽可能让它们看起来真实
and then I add 25 or 30 percent heavy-handedness on top of that because the camera's gonna lose that.
加上 25% 到 30% 的强烈灯光，不然摄影机拍不到
We started out with a set of buildings, about a dozen buildings
一开始大约是十几栋模型建筑
that were meant to be this retrofitted old base of the city.
那是翻新过的旧市区
Most of them were only two-sided buildings-- You know, the front side and the oblique side.
多数建筑只有两面，前面跟侧面
--which were miniatures on plywood with lights inside
那是三夹板模型，窗里装了灯
the windows and a lot of detail on the outside.
外侧做得很逼真细致
One of the main miniature sequences that was in the show when I first came on
我刚加入时，主要的模型戏之一
was the flight through the buildings.
是飞行穿越建筑物
And a lot of time and effort was spent on
为了仔细安排那个镜头
laying out the buildings what the detailing was on them for that sequence
排列建筑物得花很多时间跟心力
because everyone knew it was gonna be what was outside the windows in the spinner.
因为大家都知道未来车会来到窗外
It got to the point where those shots grew and grew and became more and more vast.
那时镜头越拉越大
So we were using anything we could to represent buildings.
我们得用所有的东西来代表建筑物
No budget? You can't build something else so you borrow it. God.
没有预算？做不了东西，那就借呗。天啊
维吉尔·米兰诺，EEG 静态实验室
You just throw it in there.
将它放在那里
If it looks okay in the distant and lots of smoke
只要远远地看起来很逼真，再加上很多烟
"Hey, let's do it. Just put it in there."
“开始吧，把它放在那边就好”
We grabbed other things that weren't even buildings.
我们拿起不是建筑模型的东西
Spaceships from another movie with a bunch of antennae and stuff glued on it.
另一部电影用的火箭，上面黏了一堆天线跟杂物
And we took the flying-buttress wings on the pyramid itself...
我们拿掉金字塔的拱壁
We would take those because they were all separate
我们能拿掉那些，因为它们都是独立的零件
and bring them together and create a building.
然后将它们堆在一起，当成建筑物
There's even a kitchen sink in one of them with a bunch of stuff glued on it.
甚至还有厨房水槽，上面黏了一堆杂七杂八的东西
There were some purpose-built buildings that were different from this building set.
还有其他的建筑模型，不是要用在这场戏上的
The precinct tower was a main one.
高塔是主角
They were sort of off-scale and forced-perspective-scale things.
它们很大，适合做强制视野拍摄
And they were really just a lot of fantasy shapes.
形状也是千奇百怪
And to save time, we just thought, "Well, let's start with something."
为了节省时间，我们想：“我们可以从这些开始”
And we started with the roof.
我们从屋顶开始
Once again, it was a hybrid building that was constructed out of pieces that were left lying around.
这也是混合建筑，用我们捡来的零件拼凑而成
The top of it is actually a piece from the Close Encounters revised edition
上面是 第三类接触 留下来的零件
where Richard Dreyfuss goes into the mothership and the ceiling lifts off.
就是那块被拿掉的天花板，理查德·德莱福斯从那里进入母舰的
And that was the ceiling piece that eventually became the top of the police station.
这就是那块天花板，最后那成了警局屋顶
What most people are amazed at
大数人觉得很讶异
a lot of those sets were no bigger than 12 feet by 12 feet.
很多场景面积不会超过 4 米乘 4 米
You know, we weren't shooting on very large stages
我们不是在超大摄影棚拍摄的
and this one shot, spiraling down onto the roof of the precinct tower
这个镜头是从分局屋顶往下降
we wanted to get the camera up and the camera wouldn't boom up that high.
我们得扛着摄影机，摄影机无法架在那么高的支臂
So we brought the whole miniature down to the camera
我们将模型搬到摄影机前
basically by tilting it onto an oblique angle on its side
倾斜让侧面朝向一边
so that the camera could reach high enough to get that aerial shot
摄影机可以抬高俯视由空中拍摄
and be far enough back from the tops of the building at the same time.
而且跟建筑顶部的距离够远
That Bradbury Atrium shot, I was there that evening with--
布莱德柏利大楼的镜头，那晚我也在
We went out to do that plate
我们要做这个板子
and the crew was so busy and so difficult
工作人员都很忙，难度很高
and every piece of equipment was used and there were cables everywhere
我们用光了所有的材料，到处都是电线
so when they left the interior of the Bradbury Building
当他们离开布莱德柏利大楼内部时
it was dark. It was turned off.
里面非常暗，灯熄了
And we didn't have time to light that whole thing
我们没时间打灯光
looking up with the staircases and the elevator and up to the skylight.
查看楼梯、电梯跟天窗
So we found an angle for that shot, the camera was set up
我们找了个拍摄角度架好摄影机
and Douglas said, "Just fire when I say so."
道格拉斯说：“听我的口令拍摄”
And I wasn't-- I didn't know what he was gonna do.
我不知道他要做什么
He marched through the building and illuminated the building in pieces
他跑过建筑想办法照亮模型
so we'd open-- We'd take the lens cap off and he'd say, "Fire."
我们打开镜头盖，他说“开始”
And he'd fire the strobe, and that amount of exposure would-- Was maybe 20 strobes.
他打开闪光灯，那样的曝光是，或许有 20 个闪光灯
--would go to the 8-by-10.
大小是 8 乘 10
And that built up the exposure that gave us the upshot.
累积曝光让我们拍摄
And then John Wash and company mounted that on a large piece of glass
约翰·华许跟大伙儿们把它放在一大块玻璃上
and cut out every one of those windows on a mullion.
切下竖框上的窗户部分
And then that sat right in front of the blimp.
放在飞船前面
We just put the miniature blimp behind there
我们将飞船模型放在后面
and all the light effects coming through the glass were happening right in front of the camera.
光穿透玻璃的效果就在镜头前发生
The shots looking up through the skylight of the Bradbury Building with that blimp going over
从布莱德柏利大楼天窗向上拍摄飞船飞过去的镜头
it's breathtaking, and I don't think it's been surpassed.
真的很神奇，我不觉得有人能超越我们
I mean, you talk about digital effects looking real or impressive.
数字效果看起来是很逼真
Those shots of that blimp going overhead when it's against the miniatures
飞船从头上飞过去的镜头，衬着模型
or when it's against that Bradbury skylight with the shafts of light cutting through.
飞到布莱德柏利大楼前，光线射穿了过来
That's inspiring.
那真的让人觉得兴奋
You know, it's just beautiful.
非常漂亮
In those days, in the case of some of the visual-effects work on that movie
那时本片使用的视效之一
we used a process called matte painting.
就是背景绘图
And matte painting is a technique that is used to alter the look of a location or a set in a motion picture.
背景绘图可以用来改变外景地点的模样或是摄影棚里的场景
And mostly, it is a process that is done in postproduction.
这个方法主要是在后制阶段使用
So it's a combination of painted artwork and live-action photography.
结合了绘画跟实境摄影
That is even beyond digital.
那超过了数字技术
米歇尔·莫恩，背景绘图师
I mean, it's better than anything
那是最佳的效果
because it's photography that is shot and exposed at the same time.
因为我们得在拍摄的同时曝光
The matte painting's exposed with the live-action photography.
背景绘图跟实境拍摄一起曝光
So it just is on one piece of film.
所以其实那是同一个镜头
So everything I did was kind of a lock-off.
我做的每件事都是要固定住效果
And Matt Yuricich, the matte painter
背景绘图师马特·尤里西奇
was the brother of Yuricich, the special-effects cameraman.
是特效摄影师尤里西奇的弟弟
There are technical issues that go into matte painting to make it look real
要将背景绘图画得很真实有技术上的问题
and that's where the real matte-painting art comes in.
那就是真正的背景绘图艺术所在
Certain colors photograph differently
照片的色调不一致
you have to work in certain densities to produce the effect of depth and everything.
要运用不同的密度来制造出深度
And Matthew was a genius at that and could achieve that.
在那方面麦特是天才，他可以做到那一点
And one of his unique skills was painting for dupe stock.
他的独特技巧之一就是在翻拍底片上作画
It's a very kind of hard thing to understand
那真的很难了解
but in order to retain the quality of the matte painting without--
但为了保持背景绘图的品质而不用
The matte painting would have to go through generations of duplication.
背景绘图得透过不断的翻拍
The matte paintings would be added as the last exposure in a completed shot.
在完成镜头最后一次曝光时加上背景绘图
And so the last exposure would be onto dupe negative not regular, normal cinematic negative.
最后一次曝光是在翻拍底片上，不是一般的电影底片
And so Matthew had learned to transpose all these colors in his head
马修学会了在脑子里转换这些颜色
and paint matte paintings that he knew green would turn into blue
用背景绘图将绿色变成蓝色
or orange would turn into red, yellow would turn into green, or whatever.
或是橘色变成红色，黄色变绿色等等
He could paint these paintings that, of themselves, looked horrible
他可以自己为这些本身看起来蛮可怕的画上色
but exposed onto the dupe stock, just looked like magic.
可是在翻拍底片上曝光后，效果让人惊艳
Of course, what that does is save a generation going straight from the dupe stock to the screen.
当然那省下一次翻拍的功夫，直键从翻拍底片搬上银幕
Now, with the paintings themselves, on the case of Blade Runner
在 银翼杀手 里的画
they were about 3-by-6 feet in dimension.
大约是 1米乘 2 米大
And you can paint, with certain-sized brushes
你可以用一定大小的画笔来画
and loose enough so that the camera doesn't see the brushstrokes
轻轻带过，不让摄影机拍到画笔痕迹
and you can use broader strokes and actually get away with it.
你可以用大一点的画笔也不会被发现
Well, there's a kind of a natural blurriness to live-action photography of real things.
拍摄真实物品很自然就会有模糊感
If you actually analyze a motion-picture photograph
如果可以分析电影摄影
of a building or a horizon or the sky or clouds or whatever
不论是建筑、地平线、天空或是云
it's always kind of a little bit blurry.
都会看起来都有点模糊
The straight lines aren't really straight. If you stand next to a pillar or next to a...
如果你站在柱子边，直线不是直的
The detail or the texture of something is lost.
质感细节也会不见了
If you paint so sharp and so perfect on something in scale
如果模型画得太仔细逼真
it comes back that way and it doesn't look real.
会适得其反，看起来不真实
So it's just the-- It's the texture and light.
那是质感跟光线的关系
And so there was always a little bit of what we call scumbling or blurring
模糊的感觉是一定会有的
to just soften the edges of the painting to just make it kind of fall back into the scene.
让画作的边缘柔和一点，跟场景感觉一致
There are, like, really not paintings in this film.
本片感觉好像没有用到真正的画
There's portions of paintings.
只有一部分的画
And some shot might have had five or six paintings
或许有五到六张画
where a section was burnt in that could've been fluorescence.
有一部分做过处理，会发光
Well, in the Tyrell office, there was a painting for the exterior
在泰瑞办公室外的戏用到一张画
where the pyramid had to be finished, going up.
金字塔要有特殊效果
But Ridley wanted to backlight it, of course-- As it should have been.
但雷德利要加背光，那是一定要的
The sun ball was directly out.
那时太阳已经下山了
--and when you shoot front projection, you never backlight
拍前景投影时不能用背光
because you're lighting into the beam splitter and it flares everything and washes it out.
因为光线直对分光器会照亮四周，反而没有效果
So it was a very nervous time.
所以那时非常紧张
The whole top third of the frame is a oil matte painting.
画面上方三分之一是油性背景绘图
And passes.
不断重拍
The sun was put in on a subsequent machine called Compsee.
阳光是后来由机器投射出来的
Which we would then take an optical and do a holdout for the wing of the pyramid and burn it in.
我们拿了光纤跟架子放在金字塔翅膀上贴好
And Matt Yuricich, who was doing the painting, would know that:
负责背景绘图的马特·尤里西奇知道
"Okay, there's a bright light there."
“好吧，那边有亮光”
So he would work the rest of it out to all fit.
其他的问题就由他解决
But a lot of that was re-created.
很多镜头得经过处理
The pillars were extended up.
柱子加长
The ceiling was added in in matte painting.
在背景绘图加上天花板
Those shots all came together real well.
那些镜头的组合效果很好
I really like seeing Sean walk through the sun ball
我很喜欢看肖恩走过阳光前
because that was all rotoscoped and it was a very scary shot.
因为那完全是动作描图，那是非常可怕的镜头
It was a beautiful shot.
也是很漂亮的镜头
It's my favorite in the film.
是我在片中的最爱
And you watch the film, and you know it's an effect
看到这个镜头，你知道那是特效
but you just don't perceive it as an effect.
但你不会相信那是特效
You're in the Tyrell Corporation office, and you just fall into it.
你在泰瑞公司的办公室里，你被吸引了
Katy Haber gave me a call and said
凯蒂·哈伯打电话跟我说
"Ridley wants you to meet Philip Dick and can he come down and see it?"
“雷德利要你见见菲利普·迪克，他能下去看看吗”
And I knew what I had, he'd love.
我知道他一定会喜欢
So I took him down to see rushes one day in Santa Monica.
有一天在圣塔莫尼卡，我带他去看样片
We did a little show-and-tell.
我们还做了简报
Most of our miniature photography was over at that time
那时多数模型戏都拍完了
and we drug out a few things and showed him
我们找出一些东西给他看
and he was very polite. Nice man.
他非常有礼貌，是个大好人
We went through everything, he was very reserved, he asked a few questions.
我们看过一些东西，他有所保留，也问了一些问题
We politely answered, and we went into the screening room.
我们礼貌地回答，走进放映室
And Katy had said, "Just tie together 10 minutes of your better shots and run them."
凯蒂说：“剪接出最棒的十分钟画面播放”
So the Vangelis music started to play
范吉利斯的音乐响起
the seats started to rumble
椅子开始动个不停
and we ran through the thing.
我们看了影片
The lights came back up
灯光再度亮起
Philip Dick turned around and looked right through the back of my head.
菲利普迪克转身，眼神锐利慑人
And he said, "How is this possible? How did this happen?
他说：“这怎么可能？这怎么可能？
It's like you guys hardwired my brain.
你们是不是侵入我的脑子里？
That's what I saw when I was writing that story.
那就是我写故事时看到的画面
I don't understand this. How can this happen?"
我不理解。怎么会发生这种事？”
And the compliment came when he said:
他给我们的赞美就是
"By the way, could you run that reel for me again? I wanna see it once more."
“对了，能让我再看一次吗？我想再看一次”
So he asked them to rerun the thing and I'm told that he enjoyed it very much.
他要他们再播放一次，我听说他非常喜欢
He was completely blown away.
他真的是乐坏了
Could not believe it, that something so serious was happening with his book
无法相信这是他书里的内容
and we were friends thereafter.
从此以后我们成了朋友
When I think about it now
我现在回想起来
in comparison to what we're doing today with computers and everything
比较起现在的科技，有电脑跟很多设备
巴德·约金，投资人
it-- Was just amazing.
那部片真的是太神奇了
Everything was really done, because you can feel that when you watch a film.
我们做得非常好，因为你看到时会有那种感觉
达丽尔·汉娜，普莉丝饰演者
I think when you see a film
你看到一部电影
and it's a in-camera effect it feels real.
其中的特效全是在摄影机前完成的，那感觉非常真实
We were all very impressed with the work in Blade Runner.
我们都很赞叹 银翼杀手 的效果
And to this day, I think that it's a high-water mark.
直到今天我都认为，那部电影设下了极高的标准
And the work, for the most part, still stands up very well.
片中大部分的镜头至今来说还是非常棒
For me, there was an interesting thing that happened
对我来说，这是一件很有趣的事
because I knew, and we knew, how few visual-effects shots we had in the movie.
因为我们知道在片中特效镜头非常少
Compared to Star Wars or Close Encounters
比较起 星球大战 或 第三类接触
or anybody else's you know, big effects movies.
或其他的大型特效片
It was like a third of the number of shots.
我们的特效镜头只有三分之一
But the fact that the effects shots didn't stick out like a sore thumb
事实上那些特效镜头并不突兀
they were just integrated into this big, amazing event
它们被融合进一部成效惊人的电影里
made it seem like there were more effects shots than there were.
所以看起来比实际上更多、更突出
It was very pleasing to see it, you know, fit together so seamlessly.
能看到如此天衣无缝的结合感觉非常棒
You take a look at how these images were expanding the story
看看那些画面如何丰富故事的内容
and everyone on our crew, they got it.
每个剧组人员都做得很好
My whole team got it
我的小组做到了
and they got it bigtime.
他们表现得很好
后制问题
展现魔力
Ridley and I decided to see this film before we showed it to Tandem on our own.
雷德利跟我决定在给坦德公司看之前，先自己看过一遍
So we sit there, the lights go down
我们就坐在那儿，灯光熄灭
and we never said a word through the entire film.
我们一个字也没说，看完整部电影
And when the lights came up, Ridley said:
当灯光亮起后，雷德利说
特里·罗林斯，剪辑监督
"l think it's marvelous, but what the fuck does it mean?"
“我觉得很棒，可是到底有他妈的什么意义？”
And we knew then that we had some restructuring to do and a lot of work to make this thing work.
我们马上知道架构需要重整，这下重建工程可大了
It didn't mean changing everything around
我们不是要改变所有片段
it meant getting into each of the scenes and developing them more.
而是深入每个片段让剧情发展得更深
When the film was first screened for us at the Ladd Company
当电影在拉德公司首映时
it was a very long cut, it was a very dark, you know, story.
电影非常长，是一个黑暗的故事
杰夫·沃克，市场顾问
It was impenetrable on some levels in terms of
跟最后决定的版本比起来在许多层面上都难以理解
that's why they eventually decided to add the voiceover
经过许多争议加上了旁白
and there was all of that kind of controversy of how do you make this more accessible.
好让观众能够理解
In a rough cut and they showed it to Hampton one day
在样片首映后，汉普顿先看过
then showed it to me the next day so we wouldn't run into each other or anything.
第二天再拿给我看，避免我们互相遇到
大卫·皮普尔斯，编剧
And Hampton was kind of horrified by the picture.
汉普顿真的有点被影片吓到了
I hated the assemblage, everything.
我恨透了他们的组合手法
汉普顿·范彻，执行制片人、编剧
I said, "l told you guys that you didn't have an ending," you know?
我说：“你们根本没有结局”，懂吧？
It was at Warner Bros., over in the screening room, the amphitheater.
当时是在华纳兄弟的露天剧场试映院
And we go in a room and we start talking and I'm furious.
我们走进会议室开始讨论，我当时气坏了
He says, "You've ruined it."
他说：“你毁了这部片”
雷德利·斯科特，导演
Which made me feel really bad the screening out at the valley.
我真的觉得从巷道拍摄出去的那一场很糟糕
He had no idea what it takes to put a film together like that.
他完全不知道拍摄这样一部电影的过程有多困难
And that scared me more than anything that somebody would say that.
我真的很害怕有人会说出这样的话来
You know, I mean that thing's four hours long.
那部片大概有 4 小时长
And there was a three-page scene I'd written that was now 14 minutes long, right?
我 3 页的剧本剪出来居然有 14 分钟长
I mean, it was quite startling but it also magical and awesome and stunning.
真的让人很震惊，但又充满了魔力与伟大之处，相当出色
When the film finished shooting, we showed what we had and they didn't like it, of course.
结束拍摄后我们给他们看结果，他们当然不喜欢
And then we took it back to England because we were going to mix the picture in England
然后我们拿去英国，因为我们必须在英国混音
so we did our cut back home.
所以我们在那里剪片
补拍，伦敦
In the school holidays, rather than bum around the house
学校放假的时候，与其宅在家里
we'd actually go, if we could go, and work.
我们会觉得，不如出去工作
Get production experience somehow.
吸取一些制片的经验
Or, you know, in this case, go into the editing rooms with Terry Rawlings and Blade Runner.
对我们来说，就是能跟特里·罗林斯进剪辑室，剪辑 银翼杀手
杰克·斯科特，雷德利·斯科特之子
We were labeling film cans, and
我们整天都在替胶片盒写标签
you know, doing all the trim bins and cataloguing of things
修剪胶片、把东西分类
and making tea and go and get curry for lunch, you know.
还有泡茶、出外买咖厅饭当午餐等等的
But that was a great experience just to watch the-- To be able to go through all the footage.
不过光是能看过所有镜头，就已经是很珍贵的经验了
We were given this responsibility, when you've got a white glove on
我们的责任是戴上白手套
and you're winding this stuff through
不断转着影片
and you stop and go, "That's interesting.
然后突然停下来说：“这个有趣
What the hell's that?" You know?
卢克·斯科特，雷德利·斯科特之子
那是什么鬼东西？”
And then Terry'd go: "Yeah. Jake, Luke, come and have a look at this."
然后特里说：“杰克、卢克，快过来看这个”
And it's filled with smoke and he's chuffing away.
镜头充满了烟，他在那边吞云吐雾
It's all very dark and there's this steam back in there
镜头非常暗，充满了蒸气
and it smells of celluloid and smoke and sweat.
电影胶片、烟与汗的味道
There was all of these "Scene Missing" frames would come up.
然后还有一堆“待补片段”跑出来
And I'd go, "Yeah, but what's that? What's the 'Scene Missing' bit?"
我说：“那是什么啊？什么‘待补片段’？”
But it was absolutely remarkable.
不过实在太精采了
You'd kind of go: "Oh, my God. I've never seen anything like it."
你会想说：“我的天哪，我从没看过这样的东西”
Went back and stared to edit through--
回去开始剪辑
The attractive thing was editing through the English summer into the autumn.
从夏天一直到秋天，在英国进行剪辑真的很有趣
Bud and I and Robin French, who was one of our partners
巴德跟我还有罗宾·法兰区，他也是我们一的合伙人
we spent, I think, six weeks in England with Ridley, you know, cutting the film.
我们跟雷德利大约花了六周来剪这部片
杰里·佩伦乔，投资人
And doing all the special effects and whatever else.
加上一堆特效等等
And it was-- You know, it was a lot of tug of wars
可以想象这是一场激烈的拔河赛
what should stay in, what shouldn't stay in.
什么该剪，什么不该剪
They would come over to see things
他们会进来看我们工作
and the trouble is no matter what we did, they didn't like it.
问题是不论我们怎么剪，他们都不喜欢
Took out a ton of things that I felt were necessary and we had to cut the film down.
剪去了一堆我认为必要的东西，还得缩减电影的长度
We also had a legal right at that time
我们当时也有法定的权利
巴德·约金，投资人
that Warner Bros. had the right to-- Anything over two hours
华纳兄弟有权利，任何超过两小时的影片
they could take out if they wanted to.
他们都可以剪去多余的时间
What you reading?
你在读什么？
Old favorite. Treasure Island.
经典名著，金银岛
I think the first scene to be dropped was the Holden hospital scene.
我想第一个被剪的就是霍尔登在医院的那一场戏
Basically, there was lots of trimming going on.
基本上这一段被修剪了很多
You know, taking things out.
剪去了不少东西
When he comes back, having been beaten by Leon
当他跟里昂打斗后回来
and he takes her back to his place he's washing at the sink.
他把她带回他的住处，他正在水槽洗脸
And it was much, much longer.
原本应该更长的
And sort of hypnotic.
几乎像是催眠般地
She just wanted to look at him.
她只是看着他
And she just watched him for ages.
看着许久许久
You had far more detail of him washing
他清洗的细节都还在
and the blood coming from his mouth
血从他牙齿流出来
and she slowly got closer and closer.
她靠得越来越近
And that was wonderful.
那一幕真的很棒
And the scene where he kisses her against the wall
他靠着墙吻她的那一幕
that was more sort of-- It was more sensuous at one time.
当时比较有一种，非常感官取向
It becomes sort of violent now because it's been cut down.
剪辑后看起来却有种暴力的感觉，因为前面被剪掉了
But I mean, she put her legs round him, and his hand was on her thighs and all that sort of stuff.
她把她的腿环绕着他，他的手摸着她的大腿
it was far more sensuous.
这些细节都比剪辑后更有美感
But that was cut down.
不过都被剪掉了
Towards the end on Blade Runner we were thinking about the next movie.
到 银翼杀手 的最后，我们已经在想下一部片了
艾弗·鲍威尔，副制片人
There was this project that we were working on
我们当时正在进行的片子
which was called Legend, affectionately known as Leg End.
叫做 诡秘怪谈，喜欢的人又称之为 腿的尽头
Behind Penn was this beautiful Black Park.
那里有一座黑公园
About two and a half thousand acres of great, like, Robin Hood forest.
大约有 1000 公顷的大森林，像罗宾汉的森林一样
And we got one of Vic's horses out there.
我们跟维克借来了一匹马
I always believed he's gonna come out the trees
我一直相信它会从森林里跑出来
gonna gallop down towards me
朝着我奔驰而来
gonna pass between the two trees
穿过这两棵树
gonna pass right in front of the camera.
直接穿越镜头两侧
That's exactly what he did.
结果它真的这么做了
He shook his head
它甩着头
tried to get the unicorn off, he shook his head right there so it was absolutely perfect.
想要把头上的角甩掉，就在这里甩头，完美到了极点
Ridley never, ever kind of divulged what was going on in his mind at that time.
雷德利从不泄漏他心里在想什么
And I thought: "Well, we're just slipping in this little thing which is a little test."
当时我猜想：“那我们就这么拍一小段，当作是个试验吧”
Unfortunately, that went on to the Blade Runner tab for another film.
不幸的是这一段 银翼杀手 的片段被另外一部片拿去用了
But Ridley maybe did have something else in his mind.
不过雷德利也许在想别的事
It was something more than a test.
那不只是一场实验
I wanted it to work like the thoughts of his.
我希望这部片能呈现他的思路
So he would pick up a photograph
他会挑出一张相片
he would then start looking at it and remembering
他会开始凝视，记住影像
and you'd see this unicorn running through the forest
你就会看到独角兽穿越森林
coming towards you.
向你奔驰而来
lt'd come right up the camera
朝着镜头奔驰过来
and it would shake its head.
甩着它的头
And as it shook its head
当它甩头时
I cut to him shaking his head like shaking that thought away.
我马上剪辑到他甩头的瞬间，像是要把那股思绪甩开
And it just made it such a lyrical piece and magic.
这段看起来相当富有诗意与魔力
I never understood the unicorn
我从不了解独角兽这段
I never understood a lot of things.
我从不了解很多事情
But they were things that Ridley obviously was fond of and likes.
不过这些很明显是雷德利的个人喜好
To this moment, when he comes flying through the--
即使到现在，当它跑过来
I had no idea what was it, nor did anybody in the film.
我还是不懂那有什么意义，整部戏里也没有人懂
I don't remember now, were they in his cut?
我现在不记得了，这些还在他的剪辑版本里吗？
You look at that and you say, "Well, what does that unicorn mean?"
你看到这幕戏会问：“那独角兽有何意义？”
I remember them saying, "If it doesn't mean anything, we're gonna cut it out."
我记得他们说：“如果没有意义我们就剪掉”
So they were throwing away things that were there for reasons.
所以他们开始剪去许多有意义的片段
I mean, it's all tied together in the final frames of the film
全都依附在影片的最终架构上
when he lifts up the unicorn
就是他带出独角兽的时候
the fact that they know that his thought pattern works with unicorns
事实是他的思绪跟独角兽一样
it's one of his memories.
那是他的记忆之一
Another scene where he's standing behind her in his apartment
另一场戏是他在他公寓里站在她的背后
and he's out of focus but you have this glow in the eyes
他的焦点模糊，不过他眼中带着光芒
which makes him...
看起来像是……
Could he be a Replicant?
他有可能是复制人吗？
Could he be--?
他有可能是……？
That was trimmed down.
那段也被剪掉了
And all the subtleties were taken out.
那些微妙之处都被剪掉了
That's the terrible thing about filmmaking anyway.
那就是拍片可怕的地方
Most of the things that go first when they think a thing's too long are the subtleties.
当他们觉得太长要剪短时，首当其冲的就是这些微妙之处
You know, the terrible thing about Blade Runner was
银翼杀手 这部片最糟糕的就是
it was being made for people who didn't understand what it was about.
它是为了解释给不懂的人看而诞生的电影
I showed it to Tony, said, "Do you want to see it?"
我跟托尼说：“你想看这部片吗？”
Tony said, "Yeah."
托尼说好啊
And Tony was, I think genuinely knocked out.
我记得他，是真的被打动了
I'll tell you what my five most favorite movies are.
我可以告诉你我最爱的五部电影
托尼·斯科特，时空线索 导演
The top of that list it is Blade Runner, not just because my brother did it.
第一名就是 银翼杀手，不只是因为那是我哥哥拍的
Because Blade Runner is such a brilliant film.
而是因为 银翼杀手 真的是部好片
It touches so much of my past
它与我的过去如此贴近
and I saw so much of Ridley and where we grew up.
我也看到雷德利的身影，还有我们一起长大的地方
Bringing in so much of his imagination and so much of his dreams you know
他带进如此丰富的想象力，还有他的梦想
come to the screen with that movie.
能够如此呈现在大银幕上
And most of all, you know
最大的特色就在于
the big stamp in terms of our background, where we grew up was the rain.
我们在英国长大的背景，因此雨下个不停
You know, we grew up in the north of England, it was always raining.
我们在英格兰北方长大，雨从来没停过
And the comics that Ridley used to read, you know.
还有雷德利以前常看的漫画
So when I saw the movie, I saw so much of him being brought to the screen.
所以当我看完电影时，我看到许多他的生活片段都呈现在银幕上
When we finally screened the picture in Denver
当我们最后在丹佛试映时
and we got the cards a lot of the people said they couldn't understand it.
我们收到许多意见卡，很多人都说他们看不懂
It was unintelligible. They couldn't follow--
这部片非常难懂，人们无法理解
They didn't know what the people were saying. It was a different language.
他们不知道演员在说什么，像是另一种语言
Too much confusion at this point
太多人看影片时感到困惑
saying, "What's this? What's that? What's Cityspeak? I don't--" And stuff like this.
像是：“那是什么？这是什么？什么是城市语言？”这一类的问题
"What's he saying?" And I'm going, "Oh, God."
“他在说什么？”我只能说：“天哪”
And then the previews reflect that.
试映时也会反映出这一点
Bud and I insisted that we do-- We put some voiceover with Harrison
不过我坚持，我们请哈里森做了一些旁白
to clarify some of-- You know, to move the thing forward.
澄清一些……推动一下剧情
And I know this, Ridley never agreed to that.
我知道雷德利一直不同意这件事
And he never liked it.
他不喜欢旁白
And the minute they ended up doing the director's cut
当他们最后剪辑导演版时
and that was the first, I think, the first thing he removed.
他拿掉的第一件事就是旁白
It wasn't their idea, it was our idea.
这不是他们的主意，是我们的
It was, "l am not stupid."
就像在说：“我又不笨”
I looked at the results and said, "This ain't working."
我看到结果后说：“这行不通的”
"l agree with you, but what can we do?"
“我同意，但我们该怎么办？”
"How about voiceover?"
“用旁白？”
"Okay, yeah, let's do it."
“好吧，就这么办”
Hampton had had a voiceover on it, a noir kind of voiceover on it.
汉普顿的剧本有旁白，一种黑色电影般的旁白
I did a lot of rewriting on that.
我在那上面改写了很多
They asked me to come to England, where Ridley was editing it and stuff
他们要我去英国，雷德利在那剪辑影片
and write some more voiceover to solve some problems and stuff which I did.
让我多写一些旁白来解释东西，我也确实写了
And then I learned-- And I can't remember exactly when I learned.
后来才知道，我不记得我何时得知的
--that they'd asked Hampton to do it too
他们也请了汉普顿改写旁白
because, as Michael Deeley said to Hampton:
因为迈克尔·迪利对汉普顿说
"Well, David's stuff's wonderful on the page
“大卫的东西在纸上读起来很棒
but when you speak it, it's, you know, not right or something."
但是要念出来总觉得不太对劲”
And you have to understand, by this time the story needed help from the voiceover.
你们必须了解，在那个时候，这故事没有旁白不行
But of course, that sounds awful when you just start telling the audience what's going on.
不过当然，当你开始告诉观众影片里发生了什么事，这种做法真的很糟糕
-Now, is "far-fetched" in or out?
-“牵强”去掉还是留下？
-Reel 3, section 1, take 1.
-第 3 卷，第 1 段，第 1 拍
未采用的旁白部分
It didn 't help me any.
这对我完全没帮助
Neither did the flake from the bathtub.
浴缸里的薄片也一样
Nothing helped, not even booze.
什么都没用，酒也是
I was restless and hungry.
我既累又饿
I needed the streets and I needed food.
我得回到街上，我得吃点东西
-Pretty weird. Pretty weird.
-很奇怪，真的很奇怪
The flake.
薄片
Maybe it was a scale.
也许是鱼鳞
A fish scale.
鱼的鳞片
Real or artificial?
真的还是人工制造的？
You need an expert to tell.
得找个专家来鉴识
This is bizarre.
这实在很奇怪
Goddamn, this is bizarre.
天啊，真的很奇怪
-Why?
-为什么？
-I don't know.
-我不知道
I never believed it was gonna be used.
我一直不认为旁白会被用到
And when I started talking to Ridley about it
当我跟雷德利谈到这件事时
哈里森·福特，德卡饰演者
it turned out that they were things that he was not out of sympathy with.
我才知道原来他也不是很赞成旁白
And he's right.
他说的没错
He said, "That doesn't sound right."
他说：“听起来不对劲”
And I said, "No, you're right."
我说：“你说的对”
So we tried every which way to rewrite
所以我们重写了好多种方式
except it was difficult to write.
只是要写旁白真的很难
We couldn't actually land on what he should actually talk about.
我们一直无法确定他该说什么
It's a romanticized view of being-- lnternalizing what's in his mind.
与他的心智同步……是一种浪漫的观点
What would he be thinking?
他当时在想什么？
未采用的旁白部分
Reel 11, section 1, take 4.
第 11 卷，第 1 段，第 4 拍
She told me she loved me too.
她说她也爱我
No. Wrong.
不对，不对
"She told me--"
“她告诉我……”
It's gonna work great. Really.
一定会成功的，真的
This method is perfect.
这个方法真棒
Let's go again.
再一次
Take 11.
第 11 拍
I figured I wouldn 't get the headaches or the shakes anymore.
我大概再也不会感到头痛或颤抖了
Oh, shit. No, no, no.
可恶，不
Let's go again.
我们再来一次
Twenty-three.
第 23 拍
I told her about Batty on the roof.
我告诉她巴蒂在屋顶的事
Dying
逐渐死去
making every second count.
每一秒钟都如此珍贵
-Sorry.
-对不起
-I' m breaking my f**king head here.
-我的头快他妈的裂开了
And he's laughing.
然后他还笑
Turned out Ridley and Warner Bros. had some issues with the voiceover narration.
结果雷德利跟华纳兄弟在旁白上意见有分歧
And the final versions of the narration were done without Ridley.
结果最后的旁白版本，雷德利根本没参与
And I missed him.
我很想念他
We went to London to do the cutting.
我们去伦敦进行剪片
迈克尔·迪利，制片人
The post-production.
后制工程
When we were away, that's when they sneaked in and did the voiceover.
当我们一离开，他们就偷偷做旁白
I was obliged by my contract to supply that voiceover narration.
我必须履行合约义务，提供旁白的叙述
And on the last one, I went in to do the voiceover narration
在最后的版本上，我去做旁白叙述
and I was looking around for somebody the room was there
我到处找人，录音室都准备好了
and the mike was set up but there was nobody around.
麦克风也调好了，可是一个人也没有
So I went to a nearby room
所以我找到一个最近的房间
and there was a guy in a little gray hobby suit
找到一个穿着运动装的家伙
with one of those twist-together belts
皮带还是那种缠绕型的
with the little elastic around it.
用松紧带绑着
And he had a little pipe, I believe
他好像叼着烟管
and he was hammering away at a little portable typewriter
在一个携带型的打字机上狂打个不停
I thought, "This must be a writer."
我想：“这一定是编剧吧”
So I leaned to him, I said, "Hi, I'm Harrison, how you doing?"
我走向他说：“嗨，我是哈里森，你好”
And I got this.
他给我这个手势
So I went away.
我只好走开
And about 15 minutes later, he appeared
大约 15 分钟后，他又出现了
obviously the author of what I was to read.
我才知道他就是我旁白的编剧
Tandem, Blade Runner, narration, quarter-inch roll number 3.
坦德 银翼杀手 ，旁白，1/4 卷，3 号
And I thought, "This guy is so far away from the process
我想：“这家伙大概是赶不上进度
that I mustn't fall into the trap of trying to discuss this with him."
我得把持住，不要跟他讨论情节”
Simply do it. Do it the best you can and go home
就念下去吧，全力以赴，然后回家
because I had arduously argued through other versions
因为我已经尽全力争议过好几个版本
to try and get the best version that we could of the narration
找出我们能在旁白里做出的最佳版本
even though I didn't think it was necessary.
虽然说我不认为旁白有必要存在
-Testing one, two, three.
-试音，一、二、三
最后旁白部分
Gaff had been there.
加夫来过了
He'd let Rachael live.
他让瑞秋活下去
He had nothing to fear from Bryant
他担心的不是布莱恩
but a lot to fear from me if he'd killed her.
但如果他杀了瑞秋，他就得担心我了
I don't like that, let's start again.
我不喜欢，再一次
-Excuse me.
-什么？
-Yeah.
-对
Didn't you say that bothered you?
你说那一段让你不舒服吗？
No, but I--
不是，但是我……
I thought you said that was getting in your way.
我以为你说你不喜欢那一句
-No, sir, not--
-不是，没有
-I'm sorry, I heard you wrong.
-抱歉，那我听错了
Go ahead then.
那就继续吧
There are a lot of people that like it with the voiceover.
有很多人喜欢有旁白的版本
And as a matter of fact, maybe because they're friends of mine
事实上也许是因为其中有很多是我的朋友
the majority of the people that I'd shown it to
我大部分看过这部影片的朋友
liked the version with the voiceover better than the director's cut with the voiceover out.
相比导演的无旁白版，都更喜欢有旁白的版本
I loved that voiceover.
我喜欢那个旁白
吉尔莫·德尔·托罗，潘神的迷宫 导演
I wanted-- I keep replaying my Criterion laser disc to hear the voice.
我想……我不断播着我的雷射影碟，就是要听那声音
You know, I think that there was an effect that worked for me.
我想就是那种声音的效果，让我有所感触
If there's one area where I thought the voiceover was so clunky
如果硬要我说出哪个片段的旁白笨拙到
it landed with such a hollow thud it's the "tears in rain."
像空洞的撞击声，那就是“雨中之泪”
I remember when I first saw the movie
我记得我第一次在戏院看到电影时
弗兰克·德拉邦特，肖申克的救赎 导演
I'm in the theater I'm so drawn in by what Rutger Hauer's doing.
我完全被鲁特格尔的表演吸引住
I'm so drawn in by what the theme of the movie has brought us to.
电影为观众带来的主题深深吸引了我
This magnificent moment where he is letting go of life.
在他生命逝去的最后瞬间，这是一个宏大时刻
And in those last moments of letting go of life he's really learned to appreciate life
而在那最后的时刻，他终于知道生命的可贵
to the point where he spares Deckard's life.
所以他饶了德卡一命
And where he's even holding this dove
他手中捧着这只鸽子
because he just wants to have something that's alive in his hands, right?
因为他希望他手中能有什么活着的东西，对吧？
It's an amazing sort of crescendo that's going and there's Rutger Hauer saying:
这场戏逐渐推向高潮，鲁特格尔·哈尔说道
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
“我看过你们人类不会相信的事
All these moments will be lost in time like tears in rain."
这些瞬间都会消逝无踪，就像在雨中的泪水一般”
I'm like: "Time to die."
我的反应就是：“该是终结的时刻了”
And right as I'm just--
就在我准备好要
It's like having sex and somebody dumps cold water on you.
就像正在做爱时，突然有人朝你泼冷水
Right at that moment, where I'm like at my emotional crescendo as a viewer
就在那个瞬间，作为一个观众，正在我的情绪高潮点时
here comes this thudding, dunderheaded voiceover.
我听到的是空洞、愚蠢的旁白
I don 't know why he saved my life.
我不知道他为何要救我
Maybe in those last moments
也许在他最后的时光
he loved life more than he ever had before.
他从未有这种想要拥抱生命的感觉
"Or maybe, I guess, in those last moments he appreciated life more than ever before--"
“或者也许，在他最后的时光，他从未如此想要珍惜生命……”
Like: Yes, I know that. Thank you.
就像，是的，我知道，谢谢你啊
Thank you for kicking this beautiful, delicate, emotional note that we were achieving
谢谢你在这美丽、精致而充满情绪的时刻
right in the nuts.
狠狠地往我们裤档踢一脚
Only after that had been dissected from the film
只有把旁白完全剔除掉
that I got any pleasure out of seeing that movie.
我才有可能好好欣赏这部电影
-Rolling now?
-开始了吗？
-Yeah.
-对
Once I knew that people were not getting with it
一旦我知道人们搞行懂这部片
and I hadn't connected with the idea that maybe we're ahead of our time and all that nonsense
还有我们已经超越这个时代并说法这些鬼话
the fact is if you are ahead of your time then that's as bad as being behind the times, nearly.
如果你已经超越这个时代，其实就跟赶不上时代一样糟糕
You've still got the same problem.
你还是会有相同的问题
And so I'm all about trying to fix the problem
我的工作就是要解决问题
so I'm always there to try and say, "Right, what can we do? Shit, it's not really working."
我总是不断问：“好吧那我们能怎么办？可恶，这样行不通”
I think as Jerry's team said you know
我记得杰里的小组说
it's a dark ending, we need a happy ending.
这结局太黑暗了，我我需要一个快乐结局
Now there was a mandate that we needed something
我们必须要让
to lead the theatergoers out with a much happier mood.
观众在看完电影，走出戏院时，心情会觉得舒坦点
保罗·M·萨蒙， Future Noir: The Making of Blader Runner 作者
So it was decided to show the two of them escaping from the city
所以我们决定让他们两个从城市逃出去
driving through a lush wilderness and essentially going into something very nice and upbeat
穿越茂密森林到一个美丽、欢乐的地方
from a world that had been anything but.
跟他们逃出的地方完全相反
Okay, cut.
好，卡
They took a very small crew and a spinner on a flatbed truck up to Big Bear Lake.
他们带了一个摄影小组，还在平台卡车上架了转轮前往大熊湖
The spinner was on a flatbed and they were very tightly shooting through the cockpit
转轮架在平台上，他们从驾驶舱拍，拍的很近
so that you could just see Sean Young and Harrison Ford sitting in the driver's seat
所以你只能看到肖恩·杨跟哈里森·福特坐在驾驶座上
and you saw the forest of Big Bear going by
接着看到大熊湖的森林在窗外掠过
as Deckard told the audience
就好像德卡在告诉观众
"Oh, by the way everything we've told you over the last two hours isn't true.
“对了，我在这两小时内告诉你的一切都不是真的
Rachael's gonna live forever and we're all gonna be happy."
瑞秋会永远活下去，我们将快乐地在一起”
Are you and I lovers?
我们是恋人吗？
Yes.
是的
They decided to try to get some wide-screen shots of really nice-looking nature.
他们决定试着用宽镜头拍出美丽的大自然
I was sent to shoot it with a cameraman.
我跟摄影师被派去拍这个景
So it was just him and l.
就我跟他两个人
We were flying around in a helicopter for six days.
我们坐直升机飞了六天
凯瑟琳·哈伯，执行制作
When we got back, you couldn't see anything
当我们回来后,镜头上什么都看不到
because there was a lot of cloud and a lot of snow.
因为云层过多，还有积雪
So everything we shot was completely useless
所以我们拍的所有镜头都没有用
which is why the final sequence in the first cut of the thing was
这也是为什么在第一次剪辑版本的最后镜头中
outtakes from The Shining.
我们用了 闪灵 剪去的片段
Ridley, being a fan of Stanley Kubrick's
雷德利是斯坦利·库布里克的粉丝
remembered the footage that opens The Shining.
他记得 闪灵 的开头片段
If I know Stanley, Stanley doesn't fly.
我知道斯坦利他不坐飞机的
He has never gone to Montana
他从未去过蒙大拿
so he must have done a blanket shoot of every peak in Montana for The Shining
所以在拍 闪灵 时，他肯定地毯式拍了整个蒙大拿山区
using the best helicopter crew.
他一定用了最好的直升机小组
I'll bet you he's got weeks of helicopter footage.
我打赌，他一定有可播放好几周的直升机镜头
I got through to him, which in itself is quite something to even get Stanley's number
我找到他，但光是拿到斯坦利的电话号码就算是一项成就了
because he's so private even though you've worked with him.
因为他非常重隐私，即使你跟他工作过也一样
And he was very receptive, he loved Alien
他很客气，也很喜欢 异形
he liked, he really sort of admired Ridley
他也挺欣赏雷德利的
and said, "Yeah, yeah, yeah."
就说：“嗯，可以，好的”
But, you know, as long as there's no footage used that's actually in The Shining
只要不要用到 闪灵 里的镜头
there's a lot of outtakes, et cetera
我们有一堆被剪掉的片段等等
and if it's any good, fine.
如果看起来不错，就用吧
来自 闪灵 舍弃的片段
Within about 17 hours, I had six weeks of helicopter footage.
就在 17 小时之内，我拿到了大约 6 周长的直升机镜头
In trolleys, arrived in trolleys.
在推车里，用一些手推车装来的
It's a getting-away shot where I have to shoot them on the road
那是逃出的镜头，我必须要拍他们在路上
and just doing this, you know, "Let's get married" and all that schlocky stuff.
然后要拍出“我们结婚吧”那些烂戏
And I did it
不过我还是拍了
because I figured it might actually affect
因为这可能会影响
what I thought the outcome of the movie would be negative.
因为我认为电影的结局可能会带来负面影响
I better deal with it.
我最好解决这个问题
I didn 't know how long we 'd have together.
我不知道我们还能在一起多久
Who does?
谁知道呢？
I knew then that we were gonna have Vangelis do the music.
我知道我们会找范吉利斯作配乐
And I'd worked with Vangelis before when I did Chariots of Fire.
我在拍 烈火战车 时跟他合作过
So I went up to see him at his studio.
所以我去他的工作室找他
And really that's how I found this thing, "Green."
我就这样找到了这首歌，“绿色”
You know, the one-- It's like the love theme in the film.
这…就像是电影中爱的主题
"Memories of Green" is eight minutes.
“绿色的记忆”约 8 分钟长
It's fantastic.
非常优美
And one of the great things the experiences that would follow for me
对我而言最棒的经验是
would be scoring at Marble Arch with Vangelis.
在大理石拱门区跟范吉利斯一起配乐
And most of that, every night I'd go to Vangelis' studio
我每晚都会去范吉利斯的工作室
and it would be him and maybe one assistant, that's it
就只有他，也许还有一个助理
in a big, barn-like place behind Marble Arch.
在大理石拱门后，一个像谷仓般的大工作室
When I'd arrive, he'd go, "Come, listen to this."
我到的时候，他会说：“过来听听这个”
And he would actually say, "Watch."
他会说：“看着”
And he would actually play, physically, what he was-- The recording was.
他会开始亲自弹奏，录音的部分
And as he's doing it, he's looking at me, and he's doing that.
当他弹奏时，他会看着我，一直弹奏着
And it was watching this evolution of this great music.
就像看着这伟大的音乐进化
That's where I learned about, really, his real art.
我到那时才真正了解到，他真正的艺术
He would-- He was an absolute movie fanatic.
他会……他真的是个电影狂热者
He would sit and watch every frame and say
他会坐下来观察每一个画面，然后说
"Watch the actor here, watch this blink.
“看这个演员看他眨眼
I wanna start here, on the blink."
我想从他眨眼开始”
He'd be that close.
他就是这么精准
All the time I was drawing, I was listening to Vangelis.
当我在作画时，我听的就是范吉利斯
Chariots of Fire, China.
烈火战车 、 中国
And I would play them in my earphones and draw away
我会在耳机里播着这些音乐，继练画
and to hear that music come in and be, you know, drawn into this thing
听着音乐，沉浸入这样的世界
汤姆·索斯韦尔，美术插画家
was, like, magical for me.
就像魔术一般
It was a wonderful experience.
真的是很棒的经验
And, you know, I think you're into it maybe five minutes
我走进这世界大约五分钟
and I'm no longer involved in looking at my artwork.
我就再也不去看我的画作了
I'm feeling the story
我能感受到这故事
I'm feeling the emotions of the characters
感受到人物的情绪
and lost in the middle of this wild world.
全都迷失在这狂野世界中
You know, it's so rich and it's painful.
它是如此丰富又痛苦
I mean, it's a very bluesy, dark story
这是个非常忧郁、黑暗的故事
and told very compassionately.
却被热情地叙述着
I was in London when the movie was getting scored by Vangelis
当电影配上范吉利斯的音乐时，我人在伦敦
so I'd seen a lot of the footage and I just--
所以我能看到很多片段，很多……
I mean, it just made me weep.
让我潸然泪下
乔安娜·卡西迪，卓拉饰演者
The beauty of it was-- It was just extraordinary.
其中的美丽……实在太惊人了
Ridley talking about his images
雷德利谈到他想要的意象
and how he wanted this to be and what he wanted it to look like.
希望电影呈现出来的样子
And it all happened.
全都成功地呈现了出来
It was very sweet to see that come together.
这真的很棒
I knew somewhere that it was not-- Shouldn't be a disappointment.
我知道这部片不会是……不会让人失望
I knew somewhere that I had done something pretty good.
我自己大概知道我拍了一部还算不错的电影
It was then about, "Well, I've done it. I don't know what else to do."
我觉得：“我拍完了，我不知道还能做什么了”
So we released it
然后我们发行了电影
and the rest is history.
其余的事大家都知道了
正反两极
反应与复活
这部电影的主题很晦涩
It was a very tough subject matter.
我们讲的是复制人，就是机器人
We were talking about replicants robots, if you will.
杰里·佩伦乔，投资人
当你想象当时跟现在之间的差别
I mean, when you think what's happened between then and now.
我不断想到洛杉矶
I think L.A. more and more--
当我走在闹区里时，这个城市越来越像 银翼杀手
I mean, whenever I walk around downtown l think this is becoming more like Blade Runner.
肯尼斯·特兰，洛杉矶时报 影评人
这是在研究未来
This was a study of the future.
我认为在那个时候没有人想知道未来
And I don't think, at the time people wanted to see the future.
特里·罗林斯，剪辑监督
尤其是影片中所预言的未来
Especially like it predicted in the film.
以整体规模来说这部影片真正的成就
The brilliance of what it really did with the scale of it
艺术设计掩盖了这个事实
and the production design of it disguised the fact
弗兰克·德拉邦特，肖申克的救赎 导演
这部影片其实是一个非常发人省思的故事
that there was a very compelling story there.
人们会不断回想这部影片的意义
It became so convoluted, what people thought of the picture.
有人认为这部片是影史上之最
There were people who thought it was the greatest picture they ever seen.
巴德·约金，投资人
也有人认为：“这是在演什么啊？”
There were others that said, "What the hell was it about?"
这部电影改变了我的一生
This movie is one of the movies that changed my life.
吉尔莫·德尔·托罗，潘神的迷宫 导演
看完电影后，我再也不一样了
Like, I came out of it and I was not the same person.
我看到每一辆飞越镜头的车
I felt like with every car that raced across the screen
我就这样落入了那个世界
I was spiraling into that world.
约瑟夫·卡安，极速酷客 导演
我们最后终于把片剪好
We finally did the cut.
在米高梅其中一间试映室放映
And we screened it out at MGM in one of the screening rooms out there.
就五、六个人
Just with five or six people.
我想大概是因为我们有参与感
And I guess it was because we were involved with it, you know.
这部片是……我们的宝贝
It was part of-- It was our baby.
我记得当灯光亮起时，我说
But I remember when the lights went up, I said:
“这部片会赚一笔大钱，会赚到一个亿”
"This picture is gonna do sensational business. It's gonna do $100 million."
在那个时候，一亿美元还算是大数字
And that was when $100 million was still a lot of money.
这部片会大成功
"It's gonna be a smash."
我们在好莱坞的日落大道还是哪里进行首映会
It was a premiere in Hollywood, at Sunset Boulevard or something.
我几乎可以听到观众席间的爆裂声
And I could literally feel the crack that went through the audience.
鲁特格尔·哈尔，罗伊·巴蒂饰演者
不是“哇哦”就是“呃”，没有中间地带
It was either "Wow..." or "Er..." There was no middle, no in between.
当我在银幕上看到第一个瞬间，我大喊：“搞什么？”
As soon as that first instant happened on the screen I went, "What?" You know.
汉普顿·范彻，执行制片人、编剧
到最后我觉得……
And at the end, I was like...
宽慰还不足以形容
You know, relief isn't the word.
我狂喜到了极点
You know, I was overjoyed.
首映的观众非常盛大
And then, you know, it was a big crowd.
这是好莱坞，所有人都在场
This is Hollywood, and everybody was there.
大家都爱极了
And everybody loved it.
我记得所有人都为影片的壮观赞叹不已
I just remember that everybody was so awed by the magnificence of the film
吴汉章，汉尼拔·周饰演者
看完后几乎没有人发一语
that it was almost silent after we saw it.
当你看到那么棒的影片时，已经没有什么好说的了
When you see something that good, there's nothing else to say.
对我来说，这是极为情绪化的经验
It was an extremely emotional experience for me.
当我看这部片时，就像在公开场合生下这个宝贝
I felt, when I was watching it, that I was giving birth in public.
我感到非常失望
And I was very disappointed that
这部片没有马上受到爱戴或赞誉有加
it wasn't absolutely adored and critically acclaimed instantly.
凯瑟琳·哈伯，执行制作
我真的非常兴奋
I was very excited about it.
那天早上当我才抵达西林区时
When I went out to Westwood that morning.
人们已经排队排了整晚
Because lines had been-- They'd been up overnight.
人们睡在人行道上，排队等着进去看
People slept on the pavement, waiting to get in to see it.
不过我对影评非常失望
But I was disappointed with the reviews.
跟现实完全相反
You know, something so totally different.
观众不知道该去还是不该去看
And an audience didn't know whether to come or not come.
然后他们作出了决定
And then they decided.
许多人看完影评后或者跟其他人讨论过后
A lot of them after reading reviews or talking to other people.
电影在周五晚上上映
It opened on a Friday night.
当晚的票房非常盛大
It was huge, the numbers were huge.
接着的周末人们口耳相传，票房锐减
And then the word of mouth just that weekend petered out.
周六生意惨淡，周日就完蛋了
So Saturday business fell off, Sunday business fell off.
当然，电影公司的人，全靠首周票房过活
And, of course, the guys at the studios live and die by the opening weekend.
他们打电话给巴德，巴德打给我
I guess they called Bud, and then Bud called me.
他说：“表现糟透了，好一部电影……让人失望透顶”
And he said: "In the tank. What a... It's a disappointment."
我走进戏院
I went into the theater.
伊莎·迪克·哈克特，菲利普·K·迪克之女
大概只有三个人跟我在戏院里
And there were probably three other people in the theater with me.
我已经看过影评
I had already, you know, read reviews.
他似乎只顾构建自己的世界
而不是刻画一个个令人信服的角色
也听过人们的说法
And had listened to what people were saying.
这次的问题就是如此
大部分不是非常正面
Which, for the most part, was not entirely positive, to say the least.
银翼杀手 是一部富有极为有趣的视觉效果的电影
不过故事却乏善可陈
罗杰·艾伯特 1982 年 6 月 2 日
我真的觉得非常失望，人们似乎不懂这部影片
I felt really, really disappointed that people didn't seem to get it.
当这部片在伦敦首映时，有个女影评家
When the film opened in London, there was a film critic lady.
她当时算是非常有名的影评
She used to be quite a prominent film critic, at the time.
她说：“当我看到这部片时，他们想传达什么？
She said, "When I saw this film, l thought, 'What are they trying to say?
到处都是污秽、雨跟上百万的人
It's all filth, rain, millions of people everywhere and all the rest of it.' "
这一切当我走出戏院时，走进莱斯特广场时，我走进了 银翼杀手 的世界
She said, "Then I walked out into Leicester Square, into Blade Runner.
没错，这就是这部电影的意旨”
And it made sense. I mean, that's what it was about."
这部电影真的很棒
I thought it was really great.
整部片我都喜欢，除了最后一幕，开进黄昏里
I liked everything except the last scene, the driving off into the sunset.
哈里森·福特，德卡饰演者
我不相信那一景，没有说服力
Didn't buy it. Didn't believe it.
看起来就像出自另一部电影
It looked like it came from another movie to me.
我在一个平日的下午，约 4 点走进戏院
I went in 4:00 on a weekday afternoon.
大卫·德赖尔，特效摄影总监
我坐在戏院里，只有四个人
I sat down in the theater, and there were four other people.
我的心都碎了
It broke my heart.
我看着这几乎完美的画面
But I looked at this absolutely perfect print
我对我自己说：“总有一天有人会懂的”
and I said to myself: "Someday, someone will notice."
在我生命的那个时刻，当我第一次看到 银翼杀手 时
That point in my life, when I saw Blade Runner for the first time
我完全被其中的苍凉所震撼
I was really profoundly affected by the bleakness of it all.
我不是很喜欢
And I didn't really like it very much.
道格拉斯·川柏，特效摄影总监
以电影欣赏的或视觉效果的经验来说
As a moviegoing experience, as a visual filmic experience
我认为这整部片真是精采极了
I thought the whole thing was completely extraordinary.
我记得这部片表现出来的比较像是艺术指导的远景
I remember thinking that it was much more of an art director's vision
而不是我预期对观众的情绪冲击
than having the emotional impact that I had anticipated it having.
不过当然也是因为我是个演员，比较重感受
Because of course I was, you know, an actor, I was feeling all this stuff.
达丽尔·汉娜，普莉丝饰演者
我希望对影片有一种强烈的情绪反应
So I was expecting to have a very strong sort of emotional reaction to the film.
然而我只是坐在那看着电影
And instead, I was sitting there just sort of watching it.
完全被外观与质感淹没
And overwhelmed with the look and the feel of it.
对我来说我仍未感到情绪上整体的满足感
For me, it still emotionally falls short of total satisfaction.
艾弗·鲍威尔，副制片人
因为我认为其中的情绪的逻辑跟叙述的逻辑
Because I just think there is an emotional logic and a sort of a narrative logic
并未如预期般的真实
that doesn't run as true as I feel that it should do.
我觉得我们拍出来的片子
And in a sense, I felt that what we made
就跟雷德利一向所拍的片一样美丽
was an incredibly beautiful-looking, as one would expect with Rid--
只是看起来就像艺术电影
But it's almost like an art movie.
这是第一部科幻艺术电影
It was the first science-fiction art film.
我认为这是最佳的写照
I think that's a good way to describe it.
这是一部未来的电影，一部科幻片
It is a futuristic film, it's a science-fiction film.
但是看起来又异常美丽
But it's beautifully put together.
这部片被当时
It's really impeccably made by one of--
确实可以说是，最伟大的视觉指导完美地拍了出来
Really, we have to say at this point in time one of the great visionary directors.
你看到一个你从未看过、与众不同的未来
And you really saw a future that looked very different from the futures you had seen before.
非常与众不同
A future that looked very believable.
不只是不同，也不是为了不同而不同
Not only was it different, it didn't look like it was different just to be different.
就像终于有人知道未来长什么样了
It looked like someone had actually figured it out.
有人看着未来，说：“未来大概就是这个样子”
Someone had looked into the future and said: "You know, it's gonna probably be like this."
电影预告片
帝国反击战 跟 夺宝奇兵 这些都是非常强大的营销卖点
Empire and Indiana Jones those were incredibly strong marketing hooks.
尤其对影迷
Particularly with fans.
杰夫·沃克，市场顾问
所以……既然我们首周票房不利
So, I mean, l-- We were absolutely disappointed in the opening.
鲍勃之后对我说
But it was Bob who said to me afterwards:
“你可以想象如果我们没拍这部片会是什么样子吗？”
"Can you only imagine how bad it would have been if we didn't do what we did?"
所有人都认为这部片会受到像 夺宝奇兵 或 星球大战 的一样
Everybody expected a heroic follow-up to Raiders of the Lost Ark or Star Wars.
他们在电视上广告的方式
And the way it was advertised on television
只有飞车飞越未来都市的视觉效果
with only the visual-effects shots of the flying car going over a futuristic city.
其中的打斗场面
And sort of a fight sequence is--
汤姆·索斯韦尔，美术插画家
没让观众准备好负面的情绪冲击
Doesn't prepare you for the traumatic emotional side that there is in the film.
让人有种心碎的感觉
It kind of leaves you sort of broken.
当人们看到宇宙飞船
When people see spaceships, they're--
而我已经拍完一部科幻片
And from me, at that moment, though I'd only done one.
雷德利·斯科特，导演
实际上是科幻片，人们期待暴力与恐惧
Saying science fiction, I think they were expecting violence, horror.
我们可以说那个暑假有两部片因为
It's fair to say that there were two films that really suffered that summer
E. T. 外星人 的发行受到重创
from the release of E.T.
那就是 银翼杀手 与 怪形
And they were Blade Runner and The Thing.
这两部非常黑暗的电影却在大家全都在疯 E.T. 的时候出来
We had two very dark movies come out when everyone was absolutely E.T. crazy.
82 年绝对是 E.T. 年
'82, I think, was owned by E.T.
那是一部好电影
It is a brilliant film.
我绝没有贬低的意思
l' m taking absolutely nothing away from it.
但那绝对是快乐的安慰食物
But it was definitely happy comfort food.
永远都是
That's, you know-- It always will be.
那是快乐电影的最佳典范
It's one of the best examples of that kind of film ever.
我绝不是随便赞扬来贬低它
I'm not damning it with faint praise.
这是一部好片
It's wonderful.
但我认为当时所有人都被淹没在这快乐的安慰食物中
But everybody was so plugged into the happy comfort food at that time
因此 银翼杀手 这样的片没有得到一个好机会
that they weren't giving movies like Blade Runner a chance.
或约翰卡本特重拍的 怪形
Or John Carpenter's remake of The Thing.
当时影业界的报纸像是 浮华世界 等等
There were people in the trade papers the industry journals, like Variety and so forth, at the time--
保罗·M·萨蒙， Future Noir: The Making of Blader Runner 作者
大约在 1981 年初纷纷预言 82 年暑假会有大伤亡
Starting around the winter of 1981 predicting that the summer of '82 would have such casualties.
因为一时之间有太多商品出笼
Simply by the fact that there was so much product coming in all at once
无法找到适合的观众群
that they wouldn't be able to find their audience.
有 星际旅行 2：可汗怒吼
You have Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.
有 吵闹鬼
You have Poltergeist.
E. T. 外星人
You have E.T.
约翰·卡朋特的 怪形
John Carpenter's The Thing
野蛮人柯南
Conan The Barbarian
疯狂的麦克斯 2
The Road Warrior.
电子世界争霸战
TRON.
甚至还有 洛奇 3
I mean, you even had Rocky III
开放的美国学府
Fast Times at Ridgemont High.
还有 豹人
And Cat People, you know.
查尔斯·迪·罗西瑞卡，修复制片
最后就是 银翼杀手
And then, amongst that, Blade Runner.
那是 80 年代的开始
It was the beginning of the '80s.
人们已经厌倦了 70 年代
People were over the '70s.
当时有许多令人沮丧的事发生
And there was a lot of depressing stuff coming out.
人们只想看到一个乌托邦
And what they wanted to see was a slice of utopia.
人们想看的是快乐的电影
People wanted to see happy movies.
人们想看的是里根向所有人承诺未来是美好的
People wanted to see something where-- Reagan promised everybody that the future's gonna be great.
美国将会再度强盛起来
And America's gonna be strong again.
经济会再复苏
And the economy's gonna be great.
雷德利却拍出一部令人赞叹、制作精美的未来
And Ridley came out with an amazing, brilliantly executed future.
一个与乌托邦完全相反的世界
Of an absolute dystopia.
难怪电影会卖得这么惨
There's absolutely no question why that movie failed.
在当时，科幻片的观众才刚从 星球大战 适应了科幻的长相
At that point sci-fi audience had just gotten used to the idea of sci-fi again with Star Wars.
杰克·斯科特，雷德利·斯科特之子
这部片也算是有满足感的科幻片
Which is a much more sort of satisfying sci-fi film.
激光束、机器人跟怪兽
You know, with laser beams and, you know, robots and monsters.
结果突然跑出一部尼采式的反乌托邦、哲学性与黑暗存在主义的电影
Then comes this Nietzschean, sort of dystopic philosophical and dark existential film.
那个时候，人们在拍 逃离地下天堂
In those days, people were making Logan 's Run.
迈克尔·迪利，制片人
麦克·约克穿着白西装跟蠢帽子被警察追来追去
With Michael York dressed in a white suit and a silly hat being chased around the place.
在白色走廊上追杀
Chased around white corridors.
因为那就是未来
Because that's the future.
那不是我们所作的
This wasn't what we were doing at all.
Alien 也是 异形 的名字
我们的影片非常格格不入
I think, in a way, we made it very alien.
是个肮脏的世界，有着肮脏的角色
It was a kind of grungy world, a grungy character.
在潮湿当中有种浪漫的肮脏感
And there was the romantic grunginess of the wet the dirty
脏乱与痛苦，低下阶层的浪漫概念
the pavements, the romantic notion of being down-and-out.
这部影片被忽视了这么久
The fact that the film has been underground for so long
反而得到一个特殊的地位
has given it a very special status.
在周四夜晚，在下东区，大约在 83 年
On Thursday nights in the Lower East Side-- This is, like, about '83 now.
在下东区，周四的午夜场电影播着 银翼杀手
On the Lower East Side they're having midnight showings on Thursday nights of Blade Runner.
史帝芬·戴恩，助理美术指导
我知道这部片代表的意义
Then I knew it was going to become something.
时间会证明一切
And history bears it out.
这部片一直受欢迎的原因不是因为普遍大众喜欢
The reason the film stayed popular is not because of a mass audience wanting it.
而是因为固定族群影迷的爱戴
It's a group of people that love it.
银翼杀手 有个影迷俱乐部
And there's a Blade Runner fan club.
星球大战 跟 星际迷航 影迷俱乐部那一类的东西
And a Star Wars fan club and Star Trek and all sort of those things.
很多电影在首映时没有这么受欢迎
A lot of those were not big when they came out.
但因为喜欢的影迷们绝对不忘记
But the people that love them never forget them.
而且他们绝不害羞发表意见
And they're very vocal.
他倘无时无刻都在讨论此片
So they talk about them all the time.
同时也认同了电影在戏剧上的价值
And they' re recognizing the value of those to cinema.
还有这类电影对文化的价值
And the value of those films to the cultures.
所以好在这些电影不会就这么消失了
So it's a good thing that these are not just-- That they don't just disappear.
还好我们还有 DVD 继续让这些影片发光
And it's a good thing that we've got DVDs that are keeping them going.
丹尼斯·莫伦， 视觉效果监督
我们坐在这儿，距发片已经有 25 年
We're sitting here, what, 25 years after the release.
仍然有……全球仍有这么多的网站跟影迷
You go on-- There are all kinds of web sites, there are people all over the world
不断问道：“哈里森·福特是复制人吗？”
that are interested in, you know, "Was Harrison Ford a replicant or not?"
那是种自我推销、自我发展的方式
And that self-promotion, that self-generating kind of thing that's generated by fan appeal
那是一种钱买不到的影迷忠诚度
that you can't buy.
乔治·迈克尔演唱，怪胎！ 约瑟夫·卡安导演
在 银翼杀手 之后
After Blade Runner
有许多音乐录像带出现布拉德伯里大楼下着雨有着影片中的风格
there were rock videos that had the Bradbury Building and the rain and that kind of a style.
有越来越多的乐团风格出现
I noticed that more and more and more of the bands
黑夜里下着雨，冒着蒸气的下水道
there were dark nights with rainy shit with lots of steamy drains.
每次我看到这些镜头，就知道：“那根本是来自 银翼杀手 ”
And, actually, lots of stuff where I'm going, "That's from Blade Runner."
然后我才知道这部影片对大众的巨大影响
And then I suddenly realized it was taking a huge impact.
美学设计对当代的电影与科幻风格都有极大的影响
Production design had tremendous impact on both film and science fiction from that point.
无疑地这种黑色电影的风格产生了赛博朋克
There's no question that the kind of noirish aspect led to what became cyberpunk.
黑客帝国
它催生出一整个新的科幻小说风格
It spawned a whole genre of science fiction
未来不再像是 星舰迷航 那样清新
where the future was no longer a pristine, Star Trek type of future.
我们开始看到社会与人性的堕落衰败
Where we began to see the wears and tears of society and humanity.
如果你想成为注重美学的电影制作人
If you wanna become an aesthetic filmmaker
作为一个门坎，你绝不能不研究 银翼杀手
there is no other way to cross that threshold, I feel unless you study Blade Runner.
当我在十五六岁开始研究 银翼杀手 时
And so when I started studying Blade Runner around 15, 16
我不断在电视上播着已经磨损不堪的录像带
and watching it on television on my worn-out VHS tape
我几乎把每一个画面都看过
I mean, I think I pretty much threaded that thing down
想要找出雷德利打光的方式、选择的镜头、焦距
trying to figure out Ridley's lighting, his lens choices, his focal lengths
他组合事情的方式
the way he composed things
也就是他选择的暗度、亮度，对比与剪影这些东西
where he decided to do darkness and light and contrast and silhouettes and things like that.
我认为 银翼杀手 就像一本过去 30 年来的拍片守则
Blade Runner is almost a playbook, I feel, for filmmaking of the last 30 years.
当我们在讨论时
There's a lot of times when we're talking
不管是在编剧室，还是在制片会议上，或是在跟影片公司高层开会
in writers' rooms or in production meetings or with studio execs or whatever
罗纳德·D·摩尔，太空堡垒卡拉狄加 执行制片
总是会谈到 银翼杀手 的外观、银翼杀手 的未来感
and you'll talk about a Blade Runner look, a Blade Runner feel of the future.
这部片已经奠定了一种偶像地位
And that...it just sort of defines a certain iconography.
雨、永无止尽的夜晚，那种反乌托邦的未来
You know, the rain, the sort of perpetual night feeling the dystopian future
整个世界转变成另一种美学文化
the world that shifted culturally into another aesthetic.
整个洛杉矶受到东方美学的影响之深到一个地步
I mean, the whole idea the Los Angeles is very heavily influenced by, you know an Asian aesthetic
巨型的广告板上
to the point where there's giant illuminated billboards
有着看起来像是艺伎的女子对你说话
with women in what appears to be geisha makeup talking to you.
这整个图像
That whole sort of, like, landscape
就像是娱乐事业一种对话方式的一部分
is now part of the conversation, you know in the entertainment business.
如果要说哪部片对于科幻风格
I would say of all the big, influential science-fiction films
预言未来是为写实、准确
the ones that made a real serious stab at predicting the way things would be
马克·罗曼尼克，一小时快照 导演
那铁定是 银翼杀手 了
this film has been the most accurate.
人口过剩，拥挤的景象如此写实而多采
The overpopulation, the sort of crowd scenes is so rich and varied
细节是如此靡遗
and there's such an extreme detail
杂志封面的设计
designing the magazine covers
庞克族的设计
designing the look of the punks
印度教派
the Hare Krishnas
生化销售员
the biological salesmen
一切都经过设计
everything is designed.
并非是单调的
And there's such-- It's not just one-note.
里面不只是有莫比斯的角色前前后后环绕着
It's not just that you have the Moebius type of characters in the foreground or the background
皮卡迪利广场，伦敦旅游景点
也有皮卡迪利广场的庞克族走过
but you have also just Piccadilly Circus punks walking by.
在那社会里有种层次感
You have a sense of layers in that society.
你不断看到这个层次
That is one of those things that you see again and again.
城市披戴着来自京都或东京的巨型广告牌
The city landscape with the big billboards à la Kyoto or Tokyo.
我们能根据世界各地的都市来创造这个外观
We were able to create the look based on what goes on in various cities all over the world.
劳伦斯·G·波尔，美术设计
不论是东京、京都还是北京、香港还是什么
Whether it be Tokyo, Kyoto or Beijing or Hong Kong or whatever.
事实上前两次我去香港时
In fact, the last two times I was in Hong Kong
如果你走进九龙，钻进两旁的巷道里
you go into Kowloon and you walk up and down the side streets
你就是走进了 银翼杀手 的地带
you're right in Blade Runner country.
现在跟过去比起来，生化人这个想法更为明显了
The whole idea of artificial life is actually more salient now than ever.
随着我们科技超速进步
And becomes more interesting and more possible as we get toward this kind of
计算机下棋能胜过人类
super-high technology of computers that can play chess better than people.
随着每一天的过去，这想法也越有趣而更加可能了
The whole idea of a replicant becomes more feasible every day.
这部片其中有趣的讽刺之处
What's an interesting irony, I think, is that
在于电影的中心主题与思想
you know one of the central themes and motifs of the movie
就是企业文化的打压
is this oppressive corporate culture.
正是这种企业文化的打压，导致许多烂电影的诞生
And it's that oppressive corporate culture that has resulted in a lot of bad films.
这也是为什么 银翼杀手 仍能屹立不摇
And that's one of the reasons that Blade Runner is still so vibrant.
这部片在遭遇票房失败后，其实没过多久
There really wasn't that much of a lag time between its theatrical failure
就在电视与录像带市场取得了成功
and its rediscovery on cable and cassette.
80 年代早期同时也是家庭录影带的黎明
The early '80s were also the dawn of home video.
这实在是改变人类生活的新科技
And this was a profoundly altering technology.
观众逐渐了解到
Audiences suddenly started to realize that, you know
当他们在自家电视机上看这部片
when they saw it on their home TV set
当他们可以暂停、停止或倒带时
and when they could pause it or stop it or go back
当他们能够实际上去操纵影片时，就像德卡操纵巴蒂的相片
when they could actually manipulate the film just as Deckard manipulates Roy Batty's photograph
他们才忽然理解这部片的成就
then they suddenly realized what an accomplishment it was
它也就越来越红
and then the buzz started to gather.
直到 1990 年它的电影拷贝在费尔法克斯电影节流出时
It wasn't till 1990, when the work print leaked out at that Fairfax 70mm film festival
人们才知道：“原来还有另一个版本
that people realized, "Oh, there's yet even another version
怎么会有这么多版本呢？”
and what's up with all these versions of Blade Runner?"
这部片一路上的磕磕绊绊才逐渐为人知
And that's when the troubled history of the film started to get out
人们开始理解雷德利对这部片的愿景
and people realized that Ridley's vision for the film had you know
已经在试映的过程中逐渐被稀释掉
been diluted somewhat through the process of test screenings
只是为了让这部片更受主流喜爱
and getting the film, you know, more palatable for a mainstream audience you know
导演雷德利·斯科特
的未来冒险
有点被缩减了
it had been kind of diminished.
的原始剪辑版本
我开始能够欣赏
I've come to appreciate the much more kind of
比较不扭曲，更为浸淫、未受剪辑，纯然视觉美学、无旁白的版本
uninflected immersive, uneditorial just purely visual, no-voice-over version of the film.
我实际上两个都喜欢
And I actually like both now.
我真心平等喜欢两者
And I do genuinely like both equally.
你可以看心情挑片看
And you can kind of pick your mood that you're in.
当我在导演版里看到独角兽时
When I saw the unicorn in the director's cut
我认为那是一个象征
I thought of it as a symbol.
那象征了美好的事物
And that's the beauty of something that's good, I guess.
那是非常模糊的
You know, you can-- It's ambiguous.
我的解释跟“喔，那代表德卡是生化人”完全无关
And my interpretation had nothing to do with: "Oh, that shows that Deckard's a replicant."
我不认为有任何片段显示出德卡是生化人
I don't think that anything should show that Deckard's a replicant.
如果你这么想，你就错了
If you think that, you're already wrong.
这个问题本身非常有趣
You know? I mean, it's just the question mark is what's interesting.
但答案就显得愚蠢
The answer is stupid.
这些都是人们逐渐理解这部片的地位有多特殊的过程
All of this is kind of a process of people coming to realize what an exceptional film this is.
在影片成功前，有许多事得先发生才行
And a lot of different things have to happen before it really catches on.
最初的试映……就像雪球效应
You know, the initial screenings, everything, it's like a snowball effect.
我的故事就是雪球的一部分
And, you know, my story was part of the snowball.
在人们之间产生兴趣，被收入许多书的选集中，加强对影片的兴趣
You know, it kind of created interest, it got anthologized in books it intensified interest in the film.
因别这故事真的很精采，人们越来越感兴趣
And because it was a great story, everyone got more interested in the film.
你读完故事后会想：“听起来真的很有趣。我想看看”
You read the story, you say, "This sounds really interesting, I really wanna see this."
不论提在戏院重映还是租来看
And people-- Either they saw it in the re-release in theaters or they rented it
人们将会对 银翼杀手 更加熟悉
but more and more people decided to reacquaint themselves with Blade Runner.
当你再看一次时你就爱上了它
And when you reacquaint yourself with it, you fall in love with it.
这部片我一看再看
It's one of those films that I watched again and again and again
乔登·斯科特，雷德利·斯科特之女
长大后又继续一看再看
growing up and then, you know, again and again and again as an adult.
你每次看它，就会看见你先前没发现的东西
And every time you watch it, you see something you never noticed before
或者会发现先前没发现的主题
or you pick up on, you know, a theme you didn't notice before.
对我来说，这部片
This movie, to me
具体呈现了电影经验的优雅、力量与独特之处
embodies the elegance the power and the uniqueness of a film experience.
不是光靠任何形式的剧本
You know, it does not depend on a screenplay that is written in any other form.
电影是最古典、最美丽、最纯粹的电影写作
It's the most classical, beautiful, purest moviemaking writing
制片本身——影像与声音与音乐
and then the filmmaking itself is-- The images and the sound and the music--
就占了说故事的八成
It's eight of those 10 layers of storytelling.
那就是其中的差异
That's the difference.
纯然电影制作
It's pure cinema.
我带着愤怒、惊恐、痛苦完成的这些电影
The films that I've worked on that have been filled with angst, trepidation, pain
似乎都是成功的电影
those seem to be the films that seem to be successful.
加上跟我合作的人都充满了天分
With really such gifted people involved in that
他们全都……我对两位编剧至上最高的敬意
I mean, they were all-- Both writers, you know, I have nothing but the greatest respect for.
我绝对尊敬雷德利
I certainly do for Ridley.
自从那时大部分我看过的片子
And, I mean, every picture that I've seen of his since then, for the most part.
你真的要赞赏他
You know, you gotta give him credit.
他是个了不起的导演
He's a hell of a director.
这部片真的超越了它的时代
It was really before its time
这也是雷德利的成就
and Ridley's to be complimented for that
因为他的视野与看事情的由度
because of his vision and how he saw the thing.
还有写出剧本的编剧
And also the people who wrote the script.
还有迪克，能有这样预知未来的想象力
Also Dick, who had the imagination to think about these things way off in the future.
银翼杀手 本质上是一部警世片
Blade Runner is essentially a cautionary piece.
告诉我们要注意
It's telling us to beware.
告诉我们：“小心你的方向
It's telling us, "Look where we're headed.
看看我们能对彼此作出什么
Look what we can do to each other.
不要变成生化人
Don't be a replicant.
不要只是听命行事、往女人背后开枪
Don't be someone who just follows orders and shoots women in the back.
要时时刻刻摸着自己的共情心
Be someone who has a monitor on your own empathic pulse.
当一个人类”
Be human."
这就是菲利普·K·迪克的终生志业
Which was the whole point of Philip K. Dick's career.
这个讯息非常醒人
And that was a pretty heady message.
尤其在物质主义至上的年代
Particularly at a time when there was an emphasis on the material.
银翼杀手 最终是精神至上
And Blade Runner, ultimately, is about the spiritual.
时间能试炼出伟大、古典之物
Time is the essence of what makes for something great or classic.
我们所在的电影事业里大多数电影都是可丢弃的商品
I mean, we' re in a movie business where most movies are disposable commodities.
它们是暑假强档巨片
They're the summer blockbuster.
我不会举出名字，不过它们上映几周就下片
I'm not gonna name what they are but they come and go in weeks and bye-bye
没人想再重温，没人想再看一次
nobody wants to resurrect them, nobody wants to see them again.
这些真正的好电影
So the ones that are really, truly well-made
像是科幻片中的“卡萨布兰卡”会被留下来，不断受到观看
the kind of Casablancas of science fiction survive and get seen over and over.
他完美主义的极端程度造就了这部电影
The intensity of his perfectionism on this movie made the movie.
这是大师最完美的杰作
This is a master at his best.
绝对是所有美的协调工程
I was absolutely about coordinating beauty.
每一个镜头都必须完美无缺
It was shot by shot had to be great.
我对你的期待非常高
What I'm expecting from you will be very high.
你绝对不会被浪费
You're not gonna be wasted.
我选了你，因为你是这行中的翘楚
I've chosen you because you're really good at what you do
我要不断疯狂地榨干你
and I'm gonna actually push you like crazy.
我要拿到最好的东西
I'm gonna get the best.
校对 白烟囱